New player, unsure if I did this correctly...

[creeper]

Hello there guys!

Okay, so first of all, I apologise that this is a really simple rules question but my opponent complained so profusely that what I was doing was so utterly broken and couldn't see how anybody was supposed to survive, win etc. that I seek clarification that I didn't cheat him in my ignorance.

I had a Tyranid Prime buried in a Gaunt squad armed with dual Boneswords and Toxin Sacs. Firstly he charged me with low initiative multi-wound jet-bikes (Orks) - So I went first and caused 3 wounds. Upon reading wound allocation and the Bonesword rules it seemed that you allocate a wound, roll leadership, likely fail (3d6 on 7 LD just statistically isn't likely) and then insta-die, next guy same, next guy same. 3 wounds = 3 multi-wound models dead. My turn I charge a Warboss plus accompanying Nobz and misfortune sees the entire squad wiped out in a similar fate.

I see his frustration, 1 guy just caused 7 wounds and killed 15 wounds and several hundred point worth of units. I fully explained the rules to him before the match because this was both mine and his first real game, so I explained every detail about what my units were capable of; even allowing him a re-deployment because he wasn't aware that Hive Guard would ignore cover he thought he got.

So did I do this correctly, should multi-wound models just avoid Dual Boneswords like the plague? Or is he right and I did something wrong causing waaaay more damage than I should have?

Thanks and again I apologise for the seemingly pointlessness of the thread but I keep reading wound allocation and it seems the interaction would be the same if I smashed with my Trygon and would rather other people said 'you're reading it wrong' or 'Yes; it's brutal but he won't make that mistake again' before our next game, as that will likely be soon.

Thanks!

[infornography]

That is why you don't charge boneswords with multiwound low initiative units. His mistake.

There is however some debate on how this is done as the rules are slightly vague on the matter, but it only really makes any sense if you do it the way you listed, otherwise the ID feature is kind of pointless.

He probably would have been crying even more if his nobs had charged your Swarmlord. He is probably used to his Orks dominating melee and didn't want to change up his tactics for the new situation. He chose the fight, he was pretty much doomed to lose massive numbers to it, again, his mistake.

[retnab]

I'm not sure how many wounds Bikers have, but the way wounds works is you wound nearest to furthest. So if they have 3 wounds, the way I understand it is the 3 wounds the Prime causes would go onto the nearest one, or nearest two if they're 2 wound models, killing the nearest and forcing the instant death test on the next nearest. If I'm wrong and it is cause one wound, force test, next wound, next test, then I really need to take more Warriors after all.

[creeper]

Okay, thanks. We reached the same consensus; If I have to allocate several wounds to the multi-wound models then the instant death rule is void, but it still felt dirty. He plays Tau and was taking Orks to help against melee brutality, not be annihilated by it.

As a side note I felt bad about the previous round so I asked him; 'Do you think I should challenge the warboss? Because I don't want to risk not causing enough wounds and getting insta-deathed by Power-Klaw' hoping he would realise that challenging me meant he mitigated the carnage briefly. Sadly he didn't pick up on it =(

Further side; I have successfully nomed Ultramarines, Ork and Ork/Tau! Splinter Fleet Cerebus grows!

[retnab]

Yeah the part that says it to me is page 83 in our Codex under Bonesword, 2nd paragraph: "In addition, if a model suffers one or more unsaved wounds..." meaning to me that you allocate wounds and then test.

Nicely done, keep it up!

[Raven]

Dec 15, 2012 6:49:02 GMT retnab said:

Yeah the part that says it to me is page 83 in our Codex under Bonesword, 2nd paragraph: "In addition, if a model suffers one or more unsaved wounds..." meaning to me that you allocate wounds and then test.

Nicely done, keep it up!

5th edition codex, 6th edition rules. The way wound allocation works in 6th is you allocate and resolve each individual one. We only allocate multiple to save time when it makes no difference, but in this case the OP did it correctly and the Ork player shouldn't complain about charging the Prime with its favourite prey and it doing well.

[retnab]

As awesome as that is, I Know my local rules lawyer is going to demand to see where in the BRB it says that if I pull it on him, do you have a page number I can quote for him?

[gigasnail]

pg 25, brb. you allocate and resolve one wound at a time, starting with the closest model. OP was correct.

[coredump]

Actually, p.15 is probably better; p.25 ends up referencing the shooting rules.

But yeah, it was somewhat weird in 5E, but now it is pretty spot on. The only weirdness now is how to deal with 3+ wound models.


As for being OP..... the Prime needed to be either in base, or within 2" of a model in base.
Only the Prime attacks benefit from the ID rolls
You got lucky. With only 4 attacks, need 3+ and 4+; you should have got 1, maybe 2. And he should make that Ld check some of the time....
Same with the warboss assault....
OTOH, a 2BS Prime hiding among gaunts, is a great way of dealing with that unit.


If he is a Tau player, he probably doesn't 'get' assault very well, and doesn't know what units will take out what units....

[commandersasha]

You said you are both fairly new players: an important lesson is that some actions ate suicidal!

[hannibal]

As it is related ot this post I'm going to ask a noob question about the Swarmlord.

in his special rules it says he inflicts instant death regardless of toughness, does that mean I don't need to roll aleadership test for like a foce weaponr? so for example any wound caused a tervigon or a Trygon would be instant death.

Sorry if this is totally obvious but its not to me and don't want to cheat folks

[kenji10000]

Dec 16, 2012 17:02:20 GMT hannibal said:

As it is related ot this post I'm going to ask a noob question about the Swarmlord.

in his special rules it says he inflicts instant death regardless of toughness, does that mean I don't need to roll aleadership test for like a foce weaponr? so for example any wound caused a tervigon or a Trygon would be instant death.

Sorry if this is totally obvious but its not to me and don't want to cheat folks

Nope, fail a save and squish. It would tell you this is a force weapon or something like that if you needed to roll for it. and yes he kills multi wound models like a champ

[creeper]

Thanks all for the clarification.

coredump - Yes luck certainly was on my side! Though it seems that even with average rolls the result would have been the same; just with a few dead gaunts as a consolation prize a round later.

commandersasha - Exactly! We're both new and both learnt from the mistakes we made. Charging multi-wounds into Boneswords was his, mine was charging stealers into a Flechette discharger vehicle holding Fire Warriors; I lost 3 to Flechette, then barely popped the tank and was rewarded with Str 5, Rapid fire guns to the face!

I have to say, I like the feel of this community. This is the second or third time I've been helped quickly, with no trolling or flaming of any kind. Seems rare in a forum full of gamer types these days.

Hopefully once I get to grips with the 6th ed rules (more of a specialist gamer; Necromunda, Gorka Morka, Blood Bowl) I can become more involved and post pics, batreps etc.

[coredump]

Yeah, It has always been a fairly good forum. Glad it is.

[revx]

Dec 16, 2012 17:02:20 GMT hannibal said:

As it is related ot this post I'm going to ask a noob question about the Swarmlord.

in his special rules it says he inflicts instant death regardless of toughness, does that mean I don't need to roll aleadership test for like a foce weaponr? so for example any wound caused a tervigon or a Trygon would be instant death.

Sorry if this is totally obvious but its not to me and don't want to cheat folks

not only that but instant death means no FnP, and he attacks at AP2 so no armor saves. you can only take invulns against swarmy and if you pass it swarmy forces you to reroll it.