Heavy Support

[retnab]

Dec 2, 2012 3:07:38 GMT @60mm said:

Stonecrusher is 40k approved and the only CC Fex I'd use but has the major drawback of not being poddable What kinda aies do you tend to face? Good info to know when picking new units. Also, mind tossin up what ya have?

Well I used to play mostly against a guy running GK but he's moved to another province so that's out. Now it seems mostly other Nids, Space Marines, and a guy who runs Orks with Tau. Right now against Nids and Ork/Tau I'm having little to no trouble, but anything with too many vehicles is tricky.

I'm currently running:
== HQ ==
Hive Tyrant Brood (315 pts.)
Hive Tyrant (1) - Lash Whip And Bonesword, Twin-Linked Devourer - Brainleech Worms, Armoured Shell, Paroxysm, Leech Essence, Old Adversary = 250 pts.
Tyrant Guard (1) - Lash Whip = 65 pts.
Tyranid Prime (1) - Devourer, Pair Of Boneswords = 90 pts.

== Elites ==
Hive Guard Brood (2) = 100 pts.

== Troops ==
Broodlord Brood (172 pts.)
Broodlord (1) = 60 pts.
Genestealer (8) = 112 pts.
Hormagaunt Brood (16) - Toxin Sacs = 128 pts.
Termagant Brood (20) - Fleshborer = 100 pts.
Termagant Brood (20) - Fleshborer = 100 pts.
Termagant Brood (20) - Fleshborer = 100 pts.
Tervigon (1) - Stinger Salvo, AG, Toxin Sacs, Cat, Onslaught, Taken As Troops = 210 pts.

== Fast Attack ==
Ravener Brood (4) - Scything Talons, Devourer = 140 pts.

== Heavy Support ==
Biovore (1) = 45 pts.

== Total ==
1500 pts.

I do very much enjoy Biovores, even my one was taking about 4-5 Boys each turn last time I played against Ork/Tau, but I've found against Space Marine style armies they're basically a waste.

[Raven]

I totally forgot about the strength 5. Yeah a devilfex is better at shooting, if your army calls for it a podding devilfex can be used to take out vehicles, but personally I'd rather have a devil flyrant, trygon, or podding devilgants. each of them is capable of taking out a majority of the same threats a devilfex can, and outshines it in other aspects.

[Deleted]

Considering your meta I'd give a Tfex with Acid Spray a shot. He will annihilate Tyranids, Orks and Tau. Against SM he won't do near as much damage but can easily be used as a huge distraction and to block off movement with his size and durability. Against Tyranids and Orks, bubblewrap him with Gaunts and watch your opponent cry because he has no ap2 weaponry to hurt him with while he templates the living (please do not swear) out of their armies.

Have you considered using your Genestealers as Ymgarls btw? If the Ork/Tau guy uses Broadsides, Ymgarls can really help!

Also, Spinefists are superior to the other weapon options Raveners have. They may be s3 but Twinlinked Assault 4 is nuts!

[gigasnail]

ehh i'm not super sold on the spinefists. vs T4 and before armor saves:

spinefists 12" range, assault 4 TL, S3 = 3 hits, wounds on 5+ = 1 wound per shooter

devourer 18" range, assault 3 = 1.5 hits, wounds on a 4+ = .75 wound per shooter

deathspitter 18" range, assault 3 = 1.5 hits, wounds on a 3+ = 1 wound per shooter

cost for a deathspitter is 5 more than a spinefist, with superior range, both are AP5. still with a brood of 5 that's 25 points saved with spinefists vs deathspitters. downside is the spinefists can't threaten any vehicles, while deathspitters or devourers can be used if you DS the brood behind rear armor.

[Deleted]

Against Meq, it's the same or better. Against Geq it is definitely better, which is what op mostly faces and the lack of ap doesn't keep it from coming out on top. Definitely better for anti-infantry though you are right about the vehicle part so it depends on what you use them for.

[gigasnail]

it's better than a devourer vs GEQ for sure but deathspitter it's a lot closer, with the aforementioned range and vehicle advantages going to the deathspitter:

vs T3, before saves:

spinefist = 1.5 wounds per shooter
devourer = 1.0 wound per shooter
deathspitter = 1.25 wounds per shooter

so yeah, gonna depend on opponent and your list. if i was gonna put guns on them i'd want the deathspitters personally, for tactical flexibility. they cost so much already i want them to be able to have targets no matter the enemy.

ravenors are a unit i really want to like but have only rarely used. i love the damn models, too.

[Deleted]

For the cost of Deathspitters you can have Spinefists and Rending Claws, that is my main point of distaste for Deathspitters on Raveners.

[retnab]

I do love the Ravener models, it's what drew me to them in the first place. I find they're a wonderful way to suddenly ruin a Fire Warrior squad's day!

I hadn't considered Spinefist because of the lower strength, but that Math Hammering does look pretty convincing, I'll try it out in my next game.

I've tried Tfexes before, but those were against the GK player and there it was totally underwhelming (it was with Rupture Cannon against those but still). I might try them but they're just so expensive to start and they'd take over my Tervi model which is an idea I'm really not too for.

I haven't tried Ymgarls just because I've found the 9 man squad worked pretty well already, plus he doesn't run battlesuits (it's Orks mainly and Tau allies so limited slots).

Basically what it comes down to is vehicles. My anti-infantry is doing great, no problems there at all, it's tank busting I need more of.

[gigasnail]

@60mm: yeah having rending claws on the ravs was assumed. i don't see a reason to run them any other way. with spinefists vs. deathspitters, i think it's going to boil down to cost and local meta. i'm just providing numbers for consideration and i'm on my 5th double rum and coke.

[Deleted]

If you need tank busting our Heavy Support, ironically, isn't the place to look.

[gigasnail]

sadly, this.

[Deleted]

Although, perhaps you should consider putting Deathspitters on your Raveners Ratnib. 4 Deathspitters can do a decent job of popping rear armor, as Gigasnail pointed out, when ya DS them in! It's not the new unit you're looking for but it can help with vehicles for 20 points.

[fragile]

Dec 1, 2012 19:51:37 GMT infornography said:

You do know that Forgeworld is a wholly owned subsidiary of GW right? And that the Stonecrusher Fex is one of the units with the approved for 40k stamp.

Its approved by Forgeworld to use with 40k, not vice versa. This is based on their idea of game balance. Most of the time its a moot issue, and its entirely up to your TO what can be used.

[coredump]

I would not DS the raveners in, they are fast enough you are usually better off starting on the board.

I would not run any guns. They are CC beasts (literally), and if you start shooting within fleshborer range, and manage to kill a few models, you may no longer make your charge roll.

If you are out of Fleshborer range (and thus out of charge range) you are usually better off trying to stay out of LoS. You really don't want the bad guys shooting at your raveners.