Hormagaunts die way too quickly

[megadeth321]

I've had a couple of games recently, which I had 12 Hormagaunts. Basically, they didn't get a chance to get into combat, I thought the outflank rule from Hive Commander would help them get into combat but the same thing happens, they get shot from overwatch and before they charge. Does anyone know how I can get the best use out of them? Thanks a lot.

[gigasnail]

what are you charging that hits and wounds 12 models during overwatch? that's a LOT of dakka. (forewarning psykers aside, there's not much you can do about that)

in all seriousness though, abandon 5th edition idea of being able to get one unit into close combat. you're going to have to charge your target with multiple units to be sure of getting into assault with enough of a unit left to function.

[WestRider]

Take more Hormies. I've never gotten anything more than Screening from a Brood smaller than 16, and that's only with full Upgrades. If you're going with just one of the Biomorphs, you probably want about 20-25 or so.

Regardless of how they're kitted out, if I'm trying to get actual damage out of them, rather than just a Screen, I like to have the Brood end up somewhere in the 160-200 Point range.

[Deleted]

Which is why I advised against TS on 12 Hormagaunts and for more bodies, seems it played out exactly as I said it would.

[rpricew]

Run the Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs and in units of 24-26, and screen them with 10 Gargoyles.

[t⊗theark]

If you're looking for something to fill out your troops than just get more bodies on the field - the max unit size is 30 for a reason.

If you're looking for something that will actually do something than don't be surprised that will hover around 200 points.

[fleetofclaw]

Nov 17, 2012 1:32:59 GMT rpricew said:

Run the Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs and in units of 24-26, and screen them with 10 Gargoyles.

Or better yet, drop the 24-26 toxin sac hormies and run 24-26 toxin sac & adrenal gargoyles

My answer to the OP is yes, yes they die too easily. A dedicated assault unit with the horrible trifecta of fail: WS3, T3, and 6+ save. I guess you could add to the mix: no assault grenades so their I5 means little vs smart opponents. Fix any one of those things and I might consider taking them. Otherwise drop their cost or the cost of their upgrades so they can be good and proper bolter fodder.

[rpricew]

Nov 17, 2012 10:11:41 GMT fleetofclaw said:

Nov 17, 2012 1:32:59 GMT rpricew said:

Run the Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs and in units of 24-26, and screen them with 10 Gargoyles.

Or better yet, drop the 24-26 toxin sac hormies and run 24-26 toxin sac & adrenal gargoyles

My answer to the OP is yes, yes they die too easily. A dedicated assault unit with the horrible trifecta of fail: WS3, T3, and 6+ save. I guess you could add to the mix: no assault grenades so their I5 means little vs smart opponents. Fix any one of those things and I might consider taking them. Otherwise drop their cost or the cost of their upgrades so they can be good and proper bolter fodder.

I've tried this strategy with just using gargoyles and it's ok, but the problem is that they tend to get shot up just as fast as Hormagaunts. It's the target saturation that you get with combining the Gargoyles & Horms together that seems to work the best.

Gargoyles move up 12" and the Hormagaunts tend to move 10-11" behind them due to bounding leap. Follow this up with a couple of Monstrous Creatures and you have 7-8 threatening targets on turn 1.

Your opponent is forced to choose his threat... do they shoot the 10 man unit of Gargoyles or the larger unit of Hormagaunts behind it. Do they focus on the TMCs and let the fast troops close ground? Throw in a Swarmlord, and you can now grant furious charge to those Hormagaunts as they crash into your opponent's lines. Plus on top of all of everything else, Hormagaunts have an additional attack on the charge which helps when hitting durable units like Trygons, TWC or Terminators.

Just running the Gargoyles is still pretty impressive, but since there is no screening unit fast enough to stay ahead of them, your opponent is allowed to focus on them and take them out. There is a Tyranid player in our FLGS that runs two 30 man units of Gargoyles with Catalyst throwing Tervigon support. It works well, but since he relies on his gargoyles for is CC support, they tend to evaporate after a couple of turns of shooting.

Another player uses the Hormagaunts with the Gargoyle screen and he always loses his Gargoyle screen, but what he gains is an extra turn or two of having his Hormagaunts around to cause mayhem in his opponent's field.

[DukeMantis]

Several people who have posted here have echoed my own thoughts on hormies;

If your going to spend the points on upgrades - take a sizeable unit. In the 1250 list im using at the moment i have 18 with toxin sacs, to me even that feels a little light on the ground.

You must have good target saturation if you expect them to ever reach combat, at the end of the day your opponent will always shoot something if he can. Hormies are enticing to shoot because he can wipe them out even with basic guns.

The gargoyle screen is effective in my experience, not only for the cover save(which nightfighting provides half the time for the first turn anyway) but also as a speedbump if your assaulted by a fast enemy (i.e orks/bikers). I take ten basic gargs in my 1250 to screen my homies. Downside of this is often the weak gargs give away first blood and a kill point in enemy turn 1 Like hormies gargs are nicer in big units. On the upside ive seen these Hormies kill two whole squads of bikers and a demon prince in my last few games purely because the garg screen gave them cover! So maybe balance is best after all

Lastly, 12 really is not a unit worth taking at all imo. Units of 30 bug me because they can be hard to manouvre with all the terrain around these days.

[fleetofclaw]

Nov 17, 2012 16:53:15 GMT rpricew said:

Nov 17, 2012 10:11:41 GMT fleetofclaw said:

Or better yet, drop the 24-26 toxin sac hormies and run 24-26 toxin sac & adrenal gargoyles

My answer to the OP is yes, yes they die too easily. A dedicated assault unit with the horrible trifecta of fail: WS3, T3, and 6+ save. I guess you could add to the mix: no assault grenades so their I5 means little vs smart opponents. Fix any one of those things and I might consider taking them. Otherwise drop their cost or the cost of their upgrades so they can be good and proper bolter fodder.

I've tried this strategy with just using gargoyles and it's ok, but the problem is that they tend to get shot up just as fast as Hormagaunts. It's the target saturation that you get with combining the Gargoyles & Horms together that seems to work the best.

Gargoyles move up 12" and the Hormagaunts tend to move 10-11" behind them due to bounding leap. Follow this up with a couple of Monstrous Creatures and you have 7-8 threatening targets on turn 1.

Your opponent is forced to choose his threat... do they shoot the 10 man unit of Gargoyles or the larger unit of Hormagaunts behind it. Do they focus on the TMCs and let the fast troops close ground? Throw in a Swarmlord, and you can now grant furious charge to those Hormagaunts as they crash into your opponent's lines. Plus on top of all of everything else, Hormagaunts have an additional attack on the charge which helps when hitting durable units like Trygons, TWC or Terminators.

Just running the Gargoyles is still pretty impressive, but since there is no screening unit fast enough to stay ahead of them, your opponent is allowed to focus on them and take them out. There is a Tyranid player in our FLGS that runs two 30 man units of Gargoyles with Catalyst throwing Tervigon support. It works well, but since he relies on his gargoyles for is CC support, they tend to evaporate after a couple of turns of shooting.

Another player uses the Hormagaunts with the Gargoyle screen and he always loses his Gargoyle screen, but what he gains is an extra turn or two of having his Hormagaunts around to cause mayhem in his opponent's field.

Why can't you screen upgraded gargoyles with unupgraded gargoyles? I guess I only use gargoyles as screens / fast moving tarpits anyway, that's about all they - and hormogaunts - are good for. They're not efficient enough MEQ killers to be much more than that.



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[deadeight]

I don't like outflanking hormagaunts. You can't charge on the same turn right? So they come in, take a turn of shooting, and then get overwatched.


Disclaimer: I don't really like using gaunts, a gant costs less and gets a shooting phase.

[vecuu]

I'm really just underwhelmed by Hormagaunts.

If you want screens, Termagants are Cheaper, and Gargs are more likely to shield your MCs.

If you want bodies, Termagants are cheaper, and can be pumped by a Tervigon.

If you want a swarm of death, TS and AG are cheaper on Gargs, plus they have their venom rule, plus they have a gun, plus they move faster.

I use them in campaigns occasionally since I have ~60 of them, and 60 bare-bones-Hormagaunts can really give off a a cool cinematic vibe, but they're just not the best choice for a Nid army, in my opinion.

[Ragged Warrior]

I like Hormagaunts, personally. Having 3 attacks when charging into combat is great. I mostly use them for tar-pitting powerful ICs like Wraith Lords, or Demon Hosts, etc. Because it will take forever for the IC's to escape or kill off a swarm of 20 Horms, it's easier to shoot them without putting any real scoring units in danger.

[Anggul]

As said by pretty much everyone, you need at least 20 of them for them to work. I run about 22 most of the time (with Toxin Sacs of course). The only big reason to use them over Gargoyles is the fact that they're scoring, but that's good enough for me as being scoring is a big deal.

[Illithid]

My opinion so far in 6th with Hormagaunts is undecided. I have played 7 games with them and been disappointed in 4 of them. Last month I was about to throw in the towel as they were extremely lack-lasture. However, I had more success with them yesterday (but may have just been my opponents - one guy was on his 5th game with Ravenwing) when they took out a unit of Terminators and then finished off a Tactical Marine Squad...

Against the Ork player, they did very little except win an objective from 8 Orks that were already decimated.

I find the issue in 6th Ed. with them is that they still have the same weakness they had in 5th (which I could overlook, as most of you know I loved them). They now cop the second round of fire in Overwatch and have lost their typical 16-18" threat. I am finding larger broods work best with only 1x upgrade - to expensive with both for what they can potentially do.

Necron Tesla Weaponry, Tau Str 5 Fire Warriors rapid firing (in fact - an rapid firing) normally kills 2-4, then striking at I1 normally for assaulting into cover (since most enemies are not stupid enough to be out in the open).

Gargoyles may not have enough attacks, but are cheaper and be kited out further for the same price, their guns can remove things such as FNP when combined with enfeeble, are faster, and provide better cover. Plus, they can overwatch if you mess up with assaulting. Add in Blinding Venom and they can wound almost anything.

Just my 2 cents from an avid-Hormagaunt lover