Mike Brandt / 11th Company say Enfeeble Stacks

[fleetofclaw]

Forgot to post this, but in episode 138 Mike Brandt apparently was dropping multiple enfeebles on people, and no one questioned it.

Further, on the 11th Company forums Mark from the Overlords asked for them to explain and Neil (11th Co. host) backed him up... well you can read it all here the11thcompany.freeforums.org/episode-138-discussion-t4394-10.html

So not only are they backing it up but apparently a major tourney allowed it. As much as I'd love for termagants to be able to double out paladins I'm not wholly convinced. Thoughts?


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[swarmy]

Oh sweet jesus...and the debate over the definition of the word "different" begins! It would be nice if they explicitly ruled it that way and spelled it out in no uncertain terms...but I'm not holding my breath

[vecuu]

Frankly it's a fuzzy rule, and with fuzzy rules I tend to err on the side of what's better for my opponent.

What would you rather do:

-stack enfeeble, only to discover via FAQ that you've been cheating your friends

or

-not stack enfeeble, only to discover that you now have a new tactical opening

I, personally, prefer the second, and, as such, will be playing like they don't stack until an FAQ is released.

[Deleted]

I'm on the side that it doesn't stack. IDing some SM with Gants wouldn't make up for your Tervigon getting IDd by a Krak. The shame!

[Jabberwocky]

I'm also against stacking. The wording may not disallow it but I can't see why it would be written as it is, if it was allowed.

[swarmy]

Nov 2, 2012 18:04:39 GMT Jabberwocky said:

I'm also against stacking. The wording may not disallow it but I can't see why it would be written as it is, if it was allowed.

That's kind of a persistent problem with their rules writing...people coming to the conclusion "well ya didn't say I couldn't!" shouldn't happen. The same goes for the cover saves on vector strikes and how people just started using that argument coupled with "well the mawloc ruling did this..." It's especially confusing when they go through the trouble to write out "cover saves not allowed" on certain psychic abilities and special abilities. Clearly they know how to be explicit but they seem to apply it sporadically.

[Jabberwocky]

Couldn't agree more there swarmy!

[fleetofclaw]

Like I said, I'm not sold that it stacks, and I have played that it does not. I just thought it odd that Neil, a generally balanced rules interpreter and someone who often calls inconclusive on many badly written rules, was so definitive on the issue. But you better believe if a tourney lets me do it I'm all over it.

EDIT: What other power is this even an issue with?


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[Jabberwocky]

None, yet. Until more codexes come out with similar powers, which they blatantly will.

[Deleted]

Enfeeble is the only thing it effects it looks like. With that in mind, it actually does make sense that Enfeeble would stack. It's the only BRB power that the line about stacking applies to, so the whole "different malediction means separate powers" doesn't really make sense as there is no other candidate to allow it to make sense. Until, and if, a Codex comes out with other powers to make use of this clause, I can't see any reason Enfeeble shouldn't stack.

Are there any Lv2 Psykers with access to Biomancy and Pyromancy with a S or T of 5 or more? That's the only combo i could see where you could combine stat modifiers and pass 10 to give the stacking clause a reason to exist. If so, stacking would be up in the air, but I'm swithing to stacking being legal.

[vecuu]

I'm fairly certain you never need to worry about stats exceeding 10, as it should be in the BRB as a hard and fast rule that stats cap at 10.

[Deleted]

Well the part of the Psyker rules we're talking about says that you can stack stat modifiers via blessings/maledictions within 1-10. As far as I can tell only Enfeeble can do it so that gives reason for stacking Enfeeble to be legal as there is nothing else that the said section of rule applies to.

[revx]

how about enfeeble stacks if i get it on 2 or more psykers, otherwise it doesnt stack =)

[Deleted]

Well that goes without saying, any one psyker can only cast any certain power once per player turn. So you need multiple psykers with the same power to stack it.

[biorivera]

To game's workshops credit, I feel like they may choose wording they do trying to keep in mind that they have to translate their books to other languages(however apparently that's caused issues recently too, I forgot someone on this forum said the italian FAQ for nids because of the wording has a totally different ruling on some specific rule).

I'd agree erring on the side of caution with rules that give yourself an advantage is the correct choice. I mean worst case scenario the game is more challenging for you and forces you to learn how to deal with more difficult situations than were intended and then you might get a new ownage toy if it gets re-ruled.

But this is interesting, I'm certainly curious now that these more prominent gaming groups are calling more attention to this will possibly get us a clarification sooner. Thanks for sharing fleet! sorry my post wasn't more helpful =X