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Post by beerogre on Oct 22, 2012 22:36:30 GMT
Hey guys,
I'm a long time fantasy player thinking about starting 'Nids as my first foray into 40k, but I'm hearing bad things.....
I am attracted to this army because of the models. Tyranids are by far the coolest line of models in 40k as far as I'm concerned... BUT....
I've begun research prior to putting down any real cash and lo and behold everywhere I look people are stating that Tyranids suck big time in this new edition.... Say it isn't so!
I've read that they took a good nerfing and are really bottom tier now. So, give it to me straight:
Would I highly regret starting a Tyranid army at this point in time?
If not, I assume there is one particular build (dual flyrants, tervigons, hive guard) from what I've read so far that is currently the only way to go?
Would somebody care to give a noob a cookie cutter example of the above mentioned list so I can get an idea of what my army would visually look like model-wise? (As I said, Tyranids are my main choice due to the model range so I'd like to know just what models are worth buying and which are not to see if I would like the army aesthetically).
Thanks for any help,
Beer Ogre
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Post by gigasnail on Oct 22, 2012 22:53:17 GMT
we lost a few things (genestealer's attacking from board edge via outflanking, furious charge initiative nerf, overwatch, changes to assault in general but especially random charge distance) and there is a general lack of parity with our army and others (few flyers or ways to deal with them, lack of any allies, problems using emplaced weapons) but gained a lot as well (flying MC's, psykers/new powers, loss of No Retreat! wounds for fearless models). aside from my hissing and booing about the changes to assault, we're doing pretty well from what i see on my end.
cookie cutter lists, eh i dunno. it's not that there is some awesome netlist combo, it's that a few of our choices are excellent and many of them are pants on head stupid or overcosted. given a choice, you pick the ones that don't suck.
double flyrant (as our only way to reliably deal with flyers) and double (or more) tervigon is looking to be popular. elites is always going to be tied up with hiveguard, zoanthropes, and ygmrl geanstealers (and sometimes the Doom in a pod). troops will be either plain termagants or devilgaunts in pods to make your tervigons troops as well, with a smattering of hormagants and sometimes FA gargoyles. biovores, trygon and sometimes dakkafex are about all you're going to see from heavy support (tyrranofex is awesome in concept but rather overcosted).
tl;dr: nids are a lot better off than we were in last edition (IMO).
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Post by carnogaunt on Oct 22, 2012 23:09:04 GMT
For a lot of those questions, it depends on who you ask, and who you play with. If you're going to play with a pretty casual crowd then you can pick from a lot of the codex and do okay. If your area is more competitive, you'll have to restrict your choices more. So what types of 40k armies do you see in your local game store? Overall, Tyranids are no worse in 6th edition than they were in 5th edition, but 6th Ed did create a few more bad match-ups for Tyranids, particularly armies with lots of aircraft. There are certainly armies in 40k which are worse off than Tyranids.
To give you an idea of the models you'll be using, the prevailing wisdom on unit selection these days is (out of the units that actually have models available): Good (all-comers) units: Hive Tyrant Tervigon Hive Guard Termagants Gargoyles Trygon Mediocre (or conditional) units: Death Leaper Zoanthropes Venomthropes Warriors Genestealers Hormagaunts Biovores Typically-not-so-good units: Lictors Pyrovores Rippers Raveners Carnifex Tyrannofex
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Post by jocke01 on Oct 22, 2012 23:12:40 GMT
Well we aren't that good but it's not that whe are that bad either, it depends on what u make of it but if your main reason is the models then I say go for it despite the bad things you have heard because the models rock!.
Alot of the bad things about this codex (at least for me) is that it's changed the style of the army and it was full of misstakes and weird FAQ decisions and just felt unfinnished.
So f you are coming into nids without the old codex fresh in memory I don't thing you will regrett starting tyranids this time. I mean look at those trygons.
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Post by fragile on Oct 22, 2012 23:18:37 GMT
Give it to you straight..... Hmmm.. "long time fantasy player"... Were you good at it? Did you win more than you lost ? If so then yes Tyranids will be fine for you. They take thought and alot of tactical play to keep alive. If not, try something like SM that has armor to save it.
As far as lists go, just look at the army list section, not to mention several threads on tournament winning lists. That should give you an idea of what to expect.
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Post by disband85 on Oct 22, 2012 23:39:18 GMT
As someone who only started playing 40k in 6th edition and went with tyranids, i can say that i absolutely love playing them! The models do look awesome, with endless spines, teeth, scything talons etc in a swarm of creatures with the occasional monstrous creature towering above everything. I love watching my army advance on the enemy, even though it's being shot to pieces i know that once i close with the enemy the tide usually turns.
You're pretty much in the same boat as me - you haven't played an earlier edition, or an earlier codex, so you don't have anything to go by. Just learn the 6th ed rules, our current codex, and develop your strategy. I have only played 4 games but I've won 3 of them (won against necrons, chaos demons, dark angels, lost playing purge the alien against space marines). Given that I'm brand new to 40k, if I can win 3 out of 4 games, I would say tyranids are definitely not useless, far from it.
One piece of advice - take a tervigon. I always take one and he has been the savior of every game, spawning about 30-40 termagants every game.
I'll also say this - in turns 1 and 2 it always looks like I'm going to lose, with me taking far more casualties than the enemy, but from turn 3 onwards it usually swings far more in my favour, as my army engages in close combat.
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Post by drake118 on Oct 23, 2012 0:24:22 GMT
I started Nids in 5th Ed., and it was horrible. I love Nids, but in 5th they were an uphill battle at best. 6th edition has changed things for me drastically. I've come to realize that dakka is king, so I took the 30 hormagaunts that I had and converted them to divilgants. My enemies now hate them. Dakkafex's in full units can wipe out whole Tac Squads in one round of shooting, granted that a Tac Squad is nowhere near the cost of Dakkafex's, but if you play them right they will do it again and again and again...
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Post by beerogre on Oct 23, 2012 0:25:06 GMT
Yeah, I suppose I am. I've won my share of tournaments and qualified for the Canadian G.T. one year (but opted not to go). I actually won a small 8 man fantasy tournament this past Saturday. So.... I guess your comment is encouraging!
Thanks! This is pretty much what I was looking for. I wanted to know which models were the "good" choices to see if I liked the look of them for the most part.
No problemo. Tervigons are sexy, so they are in! I'm also glad to hear from you guys that Trygons are good choices too, because they are VERY sexy and DEFINITELY in.
Well, thanks so much guys. It gives me some models to take a look at and some stuff to think about.
I'd like to ask one more question if I may? In regards to building a Flyrant with twin-linked devourers, can I build this right from the box? I'm not familiar with what all the different biomorph and weapon bits look like but I'm pretty sure I know what the devourers are supposed to be and I didn't see ANY AT ALL on the sprues for this kit on the G.W. website. Am I going to have to be on the hunt for bits right from the get-go if I want to build my flyrant?
EDIT: I'm not down with the 40k/Tyranid terms, what the heck is "dakka"?
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Post by gigasnail on Oct 23, 2012 0:53:56 GMT
the kit doesn't come with devourers. no one knows why. you'll have to build/scavenge them from either the carnifex kit or build them up with devourers from the termagant kit mounted onto other arms. it's not difficult to do and there are a couple of threads on it in the conversion subforum.
dakka is a term the orks use to mean anything that shoots a lot, usually screamed while, you know, shooting a lot. basically means anything with a high rate of fire (i.e. like the brain-leech devourers).
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Post by infornography on Oct 23, 2012 0:58:26 GMT
Dakka in general means focused on volume of shooting. Dakka for Tyranids generally means Devourers. Both brain leech and otherwise.
Unfortunately the twin linked devourers for MCs only come in the Carnifex kit. You can sometimes find them at bits sites but they are very popular bits. We are actually rather annoyed at GW for making a brand new tyrant kit and not including them.
One solution is to use devourers that come with warriors or termagants in some fashion. Some people will mount two devourer heads at the end of a stranglethorn cannon or venom cannon to make it look more impressive. Some will just green stuff over the arm socket at the end and mount them as is on the tyrant.
There are a wide variety of solutions to the problem in the converting section. If you have difficulty finding them start a new thread there asking for solutions and you will get tons of pictures to work from.
Thankfully the lack of twin linked devourers is pretty much our only glaring omission in the kits.
oh and, Welcome to the Hive.
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Post by Space is pretty big on Oct 23, 2012 1:01:40 GMT
Going by the real world cost of building a 'Nid army over 500 points? No.
If you're looking for a first time army that has an easy learning curve? No.
Going by aesthetics? Well I can't help you on that end.
I love nids because they're nids. 'Nid players are cool, the models are cool, and their fluff doesn't make me feel like a Neo Nazi/Communist/Rapist/Terminator in Drag at an egyptian themed underground fashion show.
But, not gonna lie. They're not top contenders for the majority of tournaments, and getting them competitive is a research project, while getting most Human armies to be a threat is a matter of picking the guys with the big hammers and shiny guns. They're not as satisfying as they use to be, and all our sexy powers are useless outside of casual play.
I first started with Dark Angels, back when they were the top of lot back in 3rd edition. Having a powerful and simple army game me a chance to learn the game very quickly, and got my juices flowing for wanting to expand into other armies.
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Post by brianb9999 on Oct 23, 2012 1:30:44 GMT
If you are planning on running a hive tyrant with 2 sets of twin-linked devourers and plan on getting the tervigon box, you can do what I did and use the fleshborer hives from the tyrannofex arms to count as your devourers. You will most definitely not be using those arms, and if you plan on giving it wings, you will only have one pair of arm slots left without converting. You can see it in my army in the "your tyranid army thread".
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Post by Davor on Oct 23, 2012 2:09:09 GMT
Lots of people say Carnifex suck. Well I find it funny a few months ago, someone made a post about how Carnifex can still be king.
One of the problems is alot of people Mathhammer alot. Never trying in actual games to see if the mathhamer is correct or not. A few people swear by Carnifex and do good with Lictors. Only consensus that everyone agrees is Pyrovores suck. But other than that, when you try Tyranids I say start small, "counts as" before you buy to make sure you actually like what you want to get.
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Post by beerogre on Oct 23, 2012 2:46:13 GMT
Unfortunately the twin linked devourers for MCs only come in the Carnifex kit. You can sometimes find them at bits sites but they are very popular bits. We are actually rather annoyed at GW for making a brand new tyrant kit and not including them. Well... that is very disappointing to say the least. Reading that reminded me that a fellow once gave me a baggie of Tyranid bits. He thought I could use them as mutations in my Fantasy army, Warriors of Chaos. I never did end up using any, so I just peeked through it now. Turns out there are four devourers in the bag, looks like one from the Warriors and three from the Termagants. I suppose I could use those... but they look a little small to me. I think the anal miniature perfectionist in me is going to demand that I track down a couple sets of the Carnifex ones.... And since I'll probably want TWO flyrants that is going to be tough to find enough by the sound of it. Damn you, GW! Why would you not put the most desired weapon option in the blasted kit?!?! Thanks for all the replies guys. If this army gets up and running I'll probably be poking around here with a whole bunch of more questions.
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Post by gigasnail on Oct 23, 2012 4:04:04 GMT
the carnifex devourer heads are exactly the same size as the warrior bits. only the arms are bigger. i know, it makes no sense.
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