A rant about shooty 'nids.

[fleetofclaw]

Fluff wise I don't mind shooty Nids, I just don't like how much assault has taken a back seat to shooting. That's not to say that assault is dead, but successful assault is now totally dependant on durability; that's not the Nid way. Cover reduced to 5+, overwatch, random charge range, shooting casualties taken from the front, still no assault grenade like biomorphs yet we are so enslaved to terrain... all these things make us too flimsy to be the assault juggernauts we use to be.

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[Sensei]

I see the value of having the firepower, but I tend to enjoy armies that favour CC with some firepower for support - I love the idea of my swarm closing in and overrunning the enemy.

I don't like that a fully kitted CC warrior/hive tyrant/carnifex/*insert other nid here* cost much much more points wise than a shooty version. It's great with the new edition's focus on firepower because now when we take the shooty version we have some leftover points and the model is still effective. It just makes me sad when I have a monster geared up forCC and my brother shoots it off the board just as I'm in position to charge

My hope is that points costs get altered to reflect the "shooty shift". I'm not expecting to see an FAQ correcting this, so I'll hold my breath for our next codex whenever it comes out. It would be nice to see the points cost reflect the abilities of the units and in this edition it doesn't make sense that a dedicated CC unit costs more than a hybrid or full shooty one.

[Deleted]

Look at it this way;
Termagants kill group of IG with Fleshborers and press on, Ripper follow and consume the corpses which have the Fleshborer Beetles in them. Biomass returned, not wasted

[coff]

My problem with ranged bio-weapons isn't one of efficiency or feasibility. It's one of ascetics. Tyranids carrying spiky versions of other races guns with tubes and carapace does not look right to me. Nature has a myriad of bio-weapons none of which have a 'clip' like a fleshborer. When nature makes weapons it doesn't make them like we make ours. They shouldn't have grips, clips, nor should they even be carried. I'd like to see a move in future generations of models that make weapons look more natural and like they're part of the creatures' bodies. Not something they could pick up in a bio-armory.

Exploding Bugs

Beetle equipped with boiling chemicals

Tarantula that launches hairs as spines

Toad that's basically a Tervigon

[Sensei]

"They shouldn't have grips, clips, nor should they even be carried. I'd like to see a move in future generations of models that make weapons look more natural and like they're part of the creatures' bodies."

This. I agree completely. I haven't modeled a single one of my warriors with boneswords because I think they look ridiculous. If I wanted a dude with a sword, I'd play GK or some other human race. I hate that the bone sword is literally a sword in their hand.

I've always wished the weapon symbiotes looked more like actual symbiotic organisms - ie seperate but fused on, or rather grown in our case.

My description will likely fall flat of what I have in my head, but I've always envisioned the bone swords to be a sort of protruding growth out of the tyranid's lower forearm, similar in manner to the way a rhinoceros' horn grows.

Similarly, the "guns" they have have never been held in my imagination. I love the idea of having the long range firepower in their throats (and GW are spot on with Ravs, Thorax swarms and bioplsma!) and also carried on their backs (bio/pyrovores). In terms of the gaunts, I've always imagined the symbiotes either growing on their arms, not in their hands. I think it would be cool to have a model with this "growth" on their arms, with tendrils/veins wrapped around the arm and feeding up to their brain. In my mind, the termagaunt still has scything talons the same as the hormagaunt; the reason for the "different" gaunt genus is more that the weapon symbiote has grown on the arms making the talons largely useless.

But alas, I'm not sculptor so I only imagine, lol.

[Deleted]

I agree with the whole clips and whatnot looking stupid. I never liked the GW LW and BS which is why I model my own LWs and use Chapterhouse Boneswords

[t⊗theark]

I don't mind the aesthetic of it. biologically it doesn't make much sense but the looks of it adds to the idea of tyranids. One of the reasons why I like the termigant models over the hormagaunts is that the Hormagaunts look like fauna. I know that the tyranids are billions of ravaging beasts acting as a collective ravaging beast but I don't want them to actually be raveging beasts if you know what i'm saying. you add tools to these things and it adds intellegence as you amphropomorphize somthing that otherwise doesn't resemble humans - the whole subconcious 'that's intellegent' thing - means that you're not fighting a pack or a swarm of dionosaur insects rather you're fighting a very alien army. I think it's somewhat clever for tyranids: something that looks beastial with digitigrade legs, long heads and quadrepedal* posture being armed with tools such as guns and swords makes the tyranids less of a swarm of locusts and more of a resource exploiting fleet.



*Yes, I know they have 6, not 4, legs.

[malebranche]

I always loved the look of the Tyrannofexes fleshborer hive so much more than its other guns. Unfortunately I got mine for the rupture cannon, so it looks like a bug holding a rifle. I also made my own boneswords for my warriors / prime from spare mawloc bits and rending claw arms, and I think they look a lot better than the equivalent.

If others want shooty armies, that's fine by me, but I dont see why carnivorous beetles need a barrel.

[Deleted]

You use the Rupture Cannon?!? They were pretty bad in 5th, but now they're in the same category as Stranglewebs

[milkybarnid]

Sept 30, 2012 6:46:24 GMT coff said:

My problem with ranged bio-weapons isn't one of efficiency or feasibility. It's one of ascetics. Tyranids carrying spiky versions of other races guns with tubes and carapace does not look right to me. Nature has a myriad of bio-weapons none of which have a 'clip' like a fleshborer. When nature makes weapons it doesn't make them like we make ours. They shouldn't have grips, clips, nor should they even be carried. I'd like to see a move in future generations of models that make weapons look more natural and like they're part of the creatures' bodies. Not something they could pick up in a bio-armory.

Exploding Bugs

Beetle equipped with boiling chemicals

Tarantula that launches hairs as spines

Toad that's basically a Tervigon

That is a very good point, i don't have great knowledge on insects and other lifeforms on earth (i know a little). i think the tervigon should be like a crab due to its crushing claws. i see what you mean by the clips, i just pulled out a termgagant and the fleshborer has an ammo clip, the devourer gun looks more symbiotic. someone should email this to GW and give them some inspiration.

[wisdomseyes1]

Sept 30, 2012 18:14:22 GMT @60mm said:

You use the Rupture Cannon?!? They were pretty bad in 5th, but now they're in the same category as Stranglewebs

That feels a bit like your giving it more credit than it deserves.

[Psychichobo]

Yeah, Fleshborer has always annoyed me in how it looks so much like an actual gun. It's one of the many reasons I like devourers, since they do have more of a biological look to them in my opinion.

Still, GW does seem to be up and down with their idea of how organic Nids should be. Still hate how the Hive Mind is now more like a grand army general as opposed to a great collective consciousness.

[fleetofclaw]

Sept 30, 2012 6:46:24 GMT coff said:

When nature makes weapons it doesn't make them like we make ours. They shouldn't have grips, clips, nor should they even be carried. I'd like to see a move in future generations of models that make weapons look more natural and like they're part of the creatures' bodies. Not something they could pick up in a bio-armory.

Exploding Bugs

Beetle equipped with boiling chemicals

Tarantula that launches hairs as spines

Toad that's basically a Tervigon

My thoughts exactly, that's why I love the fleshborer hive and use it as TL devourers on my MCs

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[Davor]

I think Fleshborers are perfectly fine as they were. It's been ages since I had the Rouge Trader and never got into it for long, but when I was reading and making an army, I am sure Tyranids back then were like any other race. Weapons and person were seperate, so the fleshborers were seperate with ammo clips. So really it is fluffy.

Heaven forbid, GW goes agaisnt fluff, people freak out, GW does go with orginal fluff, people freak out. It's one of the reasons why I loved Tyranids from the begining, the fleshborer gaunt.

Now I just can't rememeber if Tyranids were a true Hive back then or not. I don't think they were one big hive mind back then. They had other races working for them as well. I miss the Zoats. Another reason why I loved Tyranids.

[t⊗theark]

Sept 30, 2012 21:16:41 GMT Psychichobo said:

Still hate how the Hive Mind is now more like a grand army general as opposed to a great collective consciousness.

I think this is more to the resources needed to make a psyker so tervigons or hive tyrants are simply prymary relays. I think that it would be a bit if a waste to make every ripper and gaunt as receptive as warriors and zoanthropes. I don't like the whole part where hivetyrants and warriors are strategists though, I ignore that part and think that it's the hive fleets collective.