The Harpy and Skyfire

[The New AIDS]

Vector strike hits aren't close combat attacks and aren't affected by the smash rule.

[dakkathrope]

They also removed the 2D6 armor pen, we only get the smash stuff with MCs now.

[gigasnail]

they don't get +2d6 pen in 6th.

[syu]

so the best bet is to use something else to get rid of flyers (flyrants is best or any TL double dev carnifex)....and let the harpies take care of ground troops whether by shooting or in the right cases go down for an important smash assault!

[N.I.B.]

Vector Strikes are a joke for Tyranids FMC's, pretty much. And I can't imagine an official Harpy model getting off the shelves much without buffing it's rules or a drastic point cost decrease, maybe even a combination. Compare the cost for a Vendetta, or a Night Scythe, and cry.

[Deleted]

Oct 1, 2012 14:40:43 GMT N.I.B. said:

Vector Strikes are a joke for Tyranids FMC's, pretty much. And I can't imagine an official Harpy model getting off the shelves much without buffing it's rules or a drastic point cost decrease, maybe even a combination. Compare the cost for a Vendetta, or a Night Scythe, and cry.

I fully agree with Harpies being overpriced but Vector Strike isn't a joke as it definitely has uses. Let's say you fly over an GEQ blob with a Dakka Flyrant, yeah, it's better to use the dual Devs. If you fly over some MEQ however, I'd rather trade 6 s6 ap- for 2-4 s6 ap3. Is it the best thing since sliced bread? No. It does have uses though and, considering it's something that got tacked onto having wings for free, that's a good deal in my book.

[panzerbjorn]

With a distinct lack of Skyfire ground units in our Codex, I'm looking at Harpies as just plain being air support for our bugs on the ground. After being further educated on 6ed, I'm definitely seeing problems dealing with opponents that like to use flyers a lot. It's not as big of a threat if you have an opponent that doesn't Zoom around a whole lot, but for opponents that know what they're doing with flyers, it would look like something similar to the opening days of Desert Storm I.

[N.I.B.]

Oct 1, 2012 19:59:28 GMT @60mm said:

Oct 1, 2012 14:40:43 GMT N.I.B. said:

If you fly over some MEQ however, I'd rather trade 6 s6 ap- for 2-4 s6 ap3.

Yup, you've discovered the only use for Vector Strike. I considered using it in one game last weekend, but decided not to. Why? Because it's done in the movement phase, before the shooting phase, meaning usually your other units can shoot at the unit you passed over while your Flyrant wants to shoot something the rest of the army don't have range to.

But yes, hitting up MEQ's is pretty much the only use I've found for Vector Strike. But since we're talking about Harpies in this thread, it's at S5.

Maybe there's something to be said about Striking units that you have no LOS to (and thus can't shoot).

[coredump]

The 'use' for VS is when you have a wounded vehicle or unit; so you dont want to take 12 shots at it. This lets you split your fire between two units.

In theory at least.

[Deleted]

^That too
It's too bad you can't make precision strikes with Vector, you'd think a flying predator swooping down could pick their targets like eagles and whatnot do and how much fun would that be. Swoop down from the sky and carry PF Sarge off to his grisly doom like a little bunny haha!

[Jabberwocky]

You can kind of pick targets through your positioning, it the enemy leaves the model toward an edge of the unit.

I've found vector strikes useful, especially on the harpies, for softening up front line units on your way into those back field ones.

[syu]

VS were in their element before they came up with FAQ... before fmc's didnt have a choice of the skyfire rule therefore vector strike was VERY useful.... considering that now swooping FMC can declare skyfire, Id rather go for a 6 shot TL dev at S6 than a 1+d3 VC....

agree with coredump though now that i think of it.... with a combination of VS and skyfire, you can technically take down 2 units....

some applications with this:

1. VS a "wounded" meq with 1-2 hullpoints to go then shoot 6 TL devs at a rear of another vehicle
2. this my favorite: VS a 2 HP DE venom (dont know why but I get double satisfaction destroying a DE meq! haha) and shoot TL devs at another, easy 2 units down

hmmm, nice one core, you gave me more ideas.....

To go back on topic, Harpies cant do this therefore I posted earlier, Id leave the harps to handle ground troops

Cheers!

Sunny

[panzerbjorn]

Well, there's always the Herridan option.

[ravengoescaw]

I need to write a guide to using the Harpy. I love it, hence the model W.I.P., I got a friend to let me proxy it.

[paxmiles]

Oct 1, 2012 0:10:27 GMT panzerbjorn said:

Yes, you have 2-4 S5 hits on side armor. But remember that Harpies are Monstrous Creatures. Don't they get their 2D6+S5 against the armor? It would seem to me that you'd have some pretty good odds against pretty much any armor value.

Hmmmm....Still studying the 6ed rules. Did they get rid of the 2D6 MC attack in favor of Smash? So...the next question I would have is whether Vector Attacks by FMCs are considered close combat attacks and therefore subject to the Smash rule. That being the case, having 1-2 Smash attacks against any vehicle at S10 would seem to be a pretty good deal!

The 2d6 thing was replaced with smash. Can't use the smash with vector strike. On the flip side, smash is now AP2, meaning it grants +1 on the vehicle damage table.

However, the vector strike doesn't have to just hit vehicles and can instead be used to single models out of a squad (sniper!).

If using the harpy to hunt flyers, unfortunately you have vector strike and that 4-shot spike thing (name is slipping my mind). Very terrible given the cost of the harpy.
-Pax