Many Boneswords against Many Wounds

[myopicspore]

This came up in a game recently, I've simplified it slightly to keep on topic though.

Suppose you have a brood of 3 warriors armed with dual boneswords going up against a space marine captain. Now in the game I rolled all 3 warriors attacks at once, and let's say they caused 2 wounds. The captain then has to take a leadership test to see if he suffers instant death. Is it only one?

Now I'm thinking I should roll each tyranid warrior's attacks separately because the rule states:

" ... if a model suffers one or more unsaved wounds in close combat from a tyranid with a bonesword, it must immediately pass a leadership test ... "

My interpretation is that each warrior is capable of causing instant death because of the " from a tyranid " words.

Thoughts? Any one else agree? Disagree? How about if I had a prime with boneswords in the unit as well? What happens if it is against a unit of multi wound models?

If I am right - make sure you roll those bonesword attacks separately when facing multiwound models.

[the6thdegree]

I'd be rolling seperately.

[DarkGuard]

You're right, you should be rolling them separately.

[WestRider]

It says you take "a Leadership Test" if you suffer "one or more" Bonesword Wounds. Sounds to me like you only have to test once per Assault Phase, or at worst, once per Initiative Step.

[Jabberwocky]

I've always played once per initiative step since that is how wounds are allocated and casualties removed.

[acmemyst]

Aug 30, 2012 14:04:26 GMT WestRider said:

It says you take "a Leadership Test" if you suffer "one or more" Bonesword Wounds. Sounds to me like you only have to test once per Assault Phase, or at worst, once per Initiative Step.

This seems a bit incomplete to me. It says that you take "a Leadership Test" if you suffer "one or more" Bonesword Wounds... from "a Tyranid".

If the phrase "one or more" is used to aggregate triggers into a single consequence (viz., taking a Leadership Test and suffering ID when you fail), then I would assume that the wording "a" would generate consequences for each trigger. For example, if it said that you take "a Leadership Test" if you suffer "a Bonesword Wound" by "a Tyranid", each seperate wound would trigger a test to take, by my understanding.

Following the same line of reasoning, the current wording aggregates the triggers from each seperate Warrior into a single consenquence, and hence, forces Leadership Tests for each Warrior that has dealt any unsaved Wounds.

So, as to the original question, I'd say yes, roll seperately.

[fragile]

It would be 1 test. It says "one or more wounds." Not "for each wound"

At the end of the wound allocation, when say a Tervigon takes 3 unsaved wounds, he would take 1 test.

[acmemyst]

Aug 30, 2012 17:14:54 GMT fragile said:

It would be 1 test. It says "one or more wounds." Not "for each wound"

At the end of the wound allocation, when say a Tervigon takes 3 unsaved wounds, he would take 1 test.

If that is the case, how should this have been worded to cause 1 test for each Warrior that inflicts one or more wounds?

[fragile]

Well, now that I think about this with 6th edition wound allocation, it gets a little muddy. Each wound is resolved separately now before moving on the the next one. So I guess in 6th, that it now would be a test for each unsaved wound inflicted.

[gilgashi]

" ... if a model suffers one or more unsaved wounds in close combat from (a) tyranid with a bonesword, it must immediately pass a leadership test ... "

Multiple Tyranids - Multiple tests, depending on who did the wounding. If Warrior A dealt 1 wound and Warrior B dealt 1 wound, that would be 2 separate tests. If Warrior A dealt 2 wounds and Warrior B dealt 0 wounds, one test.

[heartagramtc]

Aug 30, 2012 17:46:23 GMT gilgashi said:

" ... if a model suffers one or more unsaved wounds in close combat from (a) tyranid with a bonesword, it must immediately pass a leadership test ... "

Multiple Tyranids - Multiple tests, depending on who did the wounding. If Warrior A dealt 1 wound and Warrior B dealt 1 wound, that would be 2 separate tests. If Warrior A dealt 2 wounds and Warrior B dealt 0 wounds, one test.

i would have to say i agree, its does state for each unsaved wound A tyranid with dual BS, NOT a tyranid UNIT.

i will be playing my shrikes differently now for sure.

[fragile]

Aug 30, 2012 17:46:23 GMT gilgashi said:

" ... if a model suffers one or more unsaved wounds in close combat from (a) tyranid with a bonesword, it must immediately pass a leadership test ... "

Multiple Tyranids - Multiple tests, depending on who did the wounding. If Warrior A dealt 1 wound and Warrior B dealt 1 wound, that would be 2 separate tests. If Warrior A dealt 2 wounds and Warrior B dealt 0 wounds, one test.

This would be incorrect in both formats. The number of warriors is irrelevant to the issue at hand. A model taking the unsaved wounds is the cause for the test for ID. If 1 warrior should cause 3 unsaved wounds and they should be allocated to 3 models with more than one wound (per LoS, for example) then their would be 3 different tests. Those 3 would then test for ID after each wound before resolving the next wound. That one warrior could kill a whole brood of Carnifexes with failed LD checks.

[Davor]

I say you roll once for the Ld test, no matter how many wounds were made. Just like when a Flyrant gets shot, if it got shot once per unit or ten times per unit, you only roll once to see if it gets knocked down.

Question is do you roll the Ld check once if it is multiple units? So if brood A and Brood B both score wounds, in the same Inititave phase, do you roll once or twice? It just says Tyranid, not unit, brood or individuals. So I would say it's once no matter how many units hit per phase since they have to be taken right away.

[coredump]

Yeah..... This does get tricky.

I don't think it matters if the wounds come from a different Nid. All of the wounds are 'a wound from a Nid'.

I need to check the codex, but it seems like RAW will be one roll per wound.

[acmemyst]

Aug 30, 2012 22:03:05 GMT coredump said:

Yeah..... This does get tricky.

I don't think it matters if the wounds come from a different Nid. All of the wounds are 'a wound from a Nid'.

I need to check the codex, but it seems like RAW will be one roll per wound.

I really don't get this. It distinctly mentions "one or more wounds from a Nid", not "a wound from a Nid". How would RAW translate this into the latter?

Incidentally, if this logic does hold up, could you also have a look at the '*'-ed special rule under Devourers? This states, in quite the same formatting, that "If an enemy unit suffers one or more casualties because of a devourer, and is required to take a Morale check at the end of the phase, it suffers a -1 penalty to its Leadership". In other words, does that interpretation of "one or more <X> from a <Y>" make this penalty cumulative?