FnP vs Boneswords

[elitemaster]

Even if its some times then you would have to take the test first to see if it does have ID and if it doesnt then you get FNP

[engangsgrill]

I just wish GW would take a look at how Magic the Gathering handles triggered events and basically copy it. Let triggered events be stacked, then resolve them in last in first out order - we wouldn't even have an issue here. But given their track record and the amount of time they've had to look at better ways of doing things I'm hardly expecting any change.

[elitemaster]

The main diffrence is in Magic players play there spells. In 40k things happen at onces not in turn

[coredump]

Sept 8, 2012 20:46:55 GMT elitemaster said:

Even if its some times then you would have to take the test first to see if it does have ID and if it doesnt then you get FNP

Except.... Until you take the test, it is a normal wound, and FnP can negate it.

[wisdomseyes1]

Sept 8, 2012 20:46:55 GMT elitemaster said:

Even if its some times then you would have to take the test first to see if it does have ID and if it doesnt then you get FNP

The issue is we dont know if the test is taken before or after the feel no pain roll.

Honestly, i "know" its before, but there is no rules to suggest it.

[DukeMantis]

So... i apologise but after reading all this im still not sure what is the right way to do it haha

[snowdaman]

Sure there is no rule that says u have to roll to see if its instant death first or not but by that logic there is also no rule that says u have to roll for ap on the psychic power that is 2d6 str and d6 ap before that take their armour saves

Sent from my GT-I9100M using proboards

[engangsgrill]

Sept 9, 2012 1:40:49 GMT elitemaster said:

The main diffrence is in Magic players play there spells. In 40k things happen at onces not in turn

MtG has lots of triggered effects, similar to this very situation, but they have clearly defined rules for it. The MtG equivalent would be each player having a creature. Let's call the creatures Bony and Feely.

Player A's creature reads: Whenever Bony deals damage to a creature, that creature is destroyed. (BS - the ld test, it isn't the important part)

Player B's creature reads: For each point of damage dealt to Feely, roll 1d6. If you roll 5 or more, prevent 1 damage. (FnP 5+)

Player A attacks with Bony. Player B blocks with Feely. Both abilities triggers when Bony deals its damage to Feely.

You then have two triggered events that must be stacked, ie assigned in order to a last in first out queue. The active player (A in this case) choses the order in which triggered effects goes on the stack.

A could then say: "I put Feely's effect first on the stack, then Bony's." So, the FnP like ability is on the bottom of the stack, BS one on top.

Then the abilities are resolved from top to bottom of the stack: First Bony's triggered effect destroys Feely, then Feely's ability fizzles as Feely is no longer in play upon resolution.


GW could do it like this, and it would instantly make situations like this into non issues. However, they seem hell bent on just making things up as they go along. Their often vague and non standardized wording hardly helps. I still love 40K though.

[gloomfang]

OK. I have just spent WAY more time then I should reading and re-reading the Bone sword rules. My take on it now is this:

1) Bone Swords always casue ID. They do not require an activation. They are always on (unlike Force Weapons).
2) To avoid the effect of ID the model that takes the wound needs to pass a LD check on either 2D6 or 3D6.

So FNP does not work against Bone Swords as they always casue ID. They just have a save to avoid being killed.

Hows that work for everyone?

[gigasnail]

i can get behind that np. sound.

[elitemaster]

That does make sence and I think thats what the judge was thinking when he said they need to take the leadership test

[DukeMantis]

Thanks for the clarification! I ge it now

[ranmafan]

In my games, we always do the following:

1) Roll to Wound
2) For any wounds caused, roll for Invul saves if any.
3) Unsaved wounds force the enemy model to roll for Leadership
4) If Leadership test is passed, and enemy has FnP, THEN roll of FnP

The codex states 'must immediately pass a Ld test or suffer instant death' - IMO, the ID effect clearly comes in only after the Ld test is taken, not before.

Note that this is also important when playing against Eternal Warriors - if the enemy model fails its Ld, it won't die immediately, but if it had any FnP it cannot use FnP on the wounds caused by that specific Tyranid model ('...*A* Tyranid with a bonesword.')

Again, this is all how I see it.

[rpricew]

Sept 24, 2012 16:53:44 GMT ranmafan said:

In my games, we always do the following:

1) Roll to Wound
2) For any wounds caused, roll for Invul saves if any.
3) Unsaved wounds force the enemy model to roll for Leadership
4) If Leadership test is passed, and enemy has FnP, THEN roll of FnP

The codex states 'must immediately pass a Ld test or suffer instant death' - IMO, the ID effect clearly comes in only after the Ld test is taken, not before.

Note that this is also important when playing against Eternal Warriors - if the enemy model fails its Ld, it won't die immediately, but if it had any FnP it cannot use FnP on the wounds caused by that specific Tyranid model ('...*A* Tyranid with a bonesword.')

Again, this is all how I see it.

^^ +1

This is how we worked it out last night in a game. I assaulted an IG Blob Squad with a 5+ Inv Save from a Psychic Power + Endurance from another Psychic Power.


Shrikes attack and cause 10 wounds
- Start on the first model and roll Inv save:
- If the Model Passes the Inv Save, then the wound is discarded and then go on to the next Wound in the pool.
- Assign the next wound to the same model and roll for the Inv Save.
- Continue until the model fails the Inv Save.
- If the Inv Save is Failed, then the Model takes a Leadership Test (In this case it was on 3D6 due to dual Boneswords)
- If the Leadership Test is Passed then the Model makes the roll for FNP.
- (In my example with Imperial Guardsman) If the Leadership Test is Failed then the Model dies since FNP is ingored.
- If the FNP roll is passed, the wound is discarded.
- Assign the next wound to the same model & start the process over with Inv Saves.
- Continue until the Wound Pool is empty or all Models are dead.

This made the most sense to us. We had about 20 regular gamers all working through the rules at the same time to resolve this.

[coredump]

Why was FnP ignored? Enfeeble?


Also, while I agree with you guys, for the reasons given. I must admit that the FnP-first crowd also has some decent reasoning.