Termagants in front of Tervigon - 25%?

[bigpig]

Aug 4, 2012 4:58:45 GMT fragile said:

Interesting to see how they ruled their FAQ on some things.

Yep. Some went the way I was thinking and some didn't . Time will tell what GW has to say..

[wisdomseyes1]

@gman on the first page: go to dakka dakka, they will teach you how to make a harpy out of a tyranid warrior with wings and a venom canon, and how legal that is in tournament play.

I doubt your models were made to take advantage of the hight of the tervigons comparison. Now.... Why you modeled your tervigon to be short enough to get cover from gants I'll never know (considering its an MC and all) then again, who could have guessed the new rule of thumb would have been 25%

[andy089]

1) Use old Tervigon converted from Carnifex
2) Get hormagaunts and Termagants and change heads and arms
-> Cover saves. "Jumping" stance shows Adrenal glands.

[depletor [H5ed]]

Sorry at all, but I do not get the discussion. Every Model gets a save when it is behind another unit, even if not covered because of large gaps.

The explanation in the rulebook: Shooting units either fear to hit their comrades or they fear threats that are closer than the target.

Same with terrain areas. No 25% rule here when you are in the area. Behind an area you would not get cover. Here the 25 % cover rule would count.

Am I right here?

[wisdomseyes1]

The explanation in the rulebook: Shooting units either fear to hit their comrades or they fear threats that are closer than the target.

Cite it, because that sounds like 4th edition and target priority.

[mrmarshmallow]

I don't think he means the scaredness of closer enemies actually cause any in-game effect, that's just the fluff reasoning behind why a unit in front of another unit will always grant cover saves.

[voraciousapathy]

25% only applies to number of models in cover to gain a cover save, and/or obscuring vehicles. MCs gain cover from standing in area terrain, or being behind models -- if you have enough elevation for all shots to go completely over the line of models in front, no cover save. Airplanes can shoot over Gant screens, but Marines cannot, on level ground. I don't even really see the debate -- it's very different from 5e, so I understand the shock, but a lot of 6e shock seems to spill into a weird, "I don't like how different these rules are, so let me try to argue for 5e rules instead, even though I can't really find any basis for argument in the new BRB" realm, where logic no longer applies.

Just .. you know .. do whatever the book says to do. It's actually really easy.

[Davor]

Aug 4, 2012 15:00:51 GMT wisdomseyes1 said:

The explanation in the rulebook: Shooting units either fear to hit their comrades or they fear threats that are closer than the target.

Cite it, because that sounds like 4th edition and target priority.

I remember reading this in the 6th edition BGB. Where not exactly sure, but it's in there somewhere. I think it is in the "can't shoot into units in CC" so it doesn't really back up the argument, but what he said is somewhere in 6th BGB.

[depletor [H5ed]]

It is in the section where the wound allocation and 25 % cover is described. In this section they also describe as well the rule that it even does not matter if no model of the unit is in the direct line of sight. You still get cover.

The shooting section is the right chapter IIRC

[fragile]

This is the Intervening Model debate on page 18. where is states that if a unit is "partially hidden" that I think Depletor is referring to.

[wisdomseyes1]

Aug 5, 2012 2:45:45 GMT fragile said:

This is the Intervening Model debate on page 18. where is states that if a unit is "partially hidden" that I think Depletor is referring to.

It wasn't much of a debate when you look further into that same section. You know, where it says "just like terrain"
"If a target is partially hidden from the firer's view by models from a third unit, ... it receives a 5+ cover save in the same way as if it was behind terrain." page 18

Rippers don't give monstrous creatures cover, I am sorry. My previous post only asked for a citation because it was in response to a post that said the rulebook gave a fluff alongside the rule, which I have not seen in the rules.

[depletor [H5ed]]

I have a german rule book. A citation will not help you, I think.

The rules as I read them will give a Trygon cover when he is behind Rippers. In the section where 25 % are mentioned there ist nothing written about terrain IIRC.

[revx]

Aug 5, 2012 6:48:59 GMT wisdomseyes1 said:

Aug 5, 2012 2:45:45 GMT fragile said:

This is the Intervening Model debate on page 18. where is states that if a unit is "partially hidden" that I think Depletor is referring to.

It wasn't much of a debate when you look further into that same section. You know, where it says "just like terrain"
"If a target is partially hidden from the firer's view by models from a third unit, ... it receives a 5+ cover save in the same way as if it was behind terrain." page 18

Rippers don't give monstrous creatures cover, I am sorry. My previous post only asked for a citation because it was in response to a post that said the rulebook gave a fluff alongside the rule, which I have not seen in the rules.

rippers dont give MCs cover because of "Note that this does not apply if the shots go over the unit rather than through it." not because of the "as if it was behind terrian". "as if it were behind terrian" is related to getting the +5 cover save similar to terrian, not how you determine getting the cover save.

basically intervening models give +5 cover saves just like terrian does unless they are being shot over and not through (which makes sense because the models not intervening if you are shooting over it =P ).

so take a terma intervening shots from a space marine. the terma would give cover to every unit in the nid codex because the space marines are shooting through them and not over them (unless on higher terrian or some vantage point.).

[coredump]

Except terrain does not give a 5+ save, so that doesn't make sense.

[wisdomseyes1]

Aug 5, 2012 17:33:38 GMT revx said:

Aug 5, 2012 6:48:59 GMT wisdomseyes1 said:

It wasn't much of a debate when you look further into that same section. You know, where it says "just like terrain"
"If a target is partially hidden from the firer's view by models from a third unit, ... it receives a 5+ cover save in the same way as if it was behind terrain." page 18

Rippers don't give monstrous creatures cover, I am sorry. My previous post only asked for a citation because it was in response to a post that said the rulebook gave a fluff alongside the rule, which I have not seen in the rules.

rippers dont give MCs cover because of "Note that this does not apply if the shots go over the unit rather than through it." not because of the "as if it was behind terrian". "as if it were behind terrian" is related to getting the +5 cover save similar to terrian, not how you determine getting the cover save.

Or it could more likely be saying that you treat getting cover in the exact same way as you would any piece of terrain, since the rulebook already clarifies what type of save they get. You are suggesting that tey had to put a limiting factor of what type of save they get almost imidiately after defining what type of save they get