Never enough Gargoyles

[thatnidguy]

where to start? I wouldnt say that i am a new player to nids , but i think that gargoyles are super under rated. I played a game tonight at my local shop and my 20 bug brood a real threat. my plan is to run 60 all together. why you ask? with a tyrant / old adversary PE and AG turns these 12" moving flying termagaunts into a force to be feared. base stats: 3 across the board. add AG gives +1 str and FC which gives another +1 to str. so now you have a str 5 model that can re-roll hits and wounds , wound during rolling to hit on a 6. tell me thats not awesome. I use then as my main force. no more popping out gaunts. my genestealers are my "tarpit" unit. i run 4x man. yeah they do get wasted,but no one watched out for gargoyles. any thoughts?

[Talonis]

While gargoyles are great, AG gives you FC so it would only give you a total of S5, not 6. You only get the Benefits of furious charge once.

Still for 8 points fully upgraded, try are an excellent unit.

[amareis]

I think you read the rules wrong. AG gives FC, which in turn gives +1S on the charge. This means S4 for 1 fight sub-phase.

Granted, Gargoyles are great and they can cause havoc, and most things in the Nid dex works best if duplicated, but don't overdo them.
They are great for flanking, screening and tarpitting. They can even take out tough units or MCs when you got 20 of them. With Hammer of Wrath they are worth even more and hit REALLY hard on the charge.

Just remember that even Gargoyles have their drawbacks. They are hard to hide if you run that many. A Flying circus will scare your enemy, but they are easily shot down. Since they hit so hard on the charge, a smart enemy will keep pouring shots into them until they are no longer a threat. This could be your plan, so not all that bad.
The biggest drawback of running 420 pts of Gargoyles is that they can't hold objectives. They are fast attack and in 1 mission they even give victory points. They can contest, true, but you need troops to capture and hold when turn 4+ arrives.
Also, they can't hurt vehicles above AV10. Fair enough, most vehicles are AV10 in CC, but a walker could tie down 1 entire brood and you couldn't do anything about it.

I can't see 60 Gargoyles as being a bad thing, but they won't auto-win the game for you. Run 20 with a Flryrant and see them shine when the Flyrant buffs them with his psychic powers from Biomancy. Let the goyles screen the Flyrant for a 5+ cover save and have him kick some mech-butt. Or detach the Flyrant from his unit and go Flying MC on their asses. Charging a tough unit with 15-20 goyles and then a Flyrant afterwards will kill most things.

Also, don't tarpit with genestealers, there are not enough of them or they are not durable enough. Spawned termas are better. Just send in the termas and then send in the stealers.

[wisdomseyes1]

Were units of 17 or so gargoyles not at the core of competitive lists at one time in 5th edition? Being superior to hormagaunts in combat in every way point for point and giving much needed cover to our TMC's? The only drawbacks vein not scoring and they could and still can contest. Heck, in this edition they at even faster than hormagaunts still, because hormagaunts needed to roll to keep the same speed as gargoyles. Their only redeeming factor in comparison by that time was that hormagaunts har 1 extra attack... And now gargoyle ls har hammer of wrath.

8 points for poison gant, or for bloodthirsty poison gargoyle? I vote the gargoyle still.

[N.I.B.]

hiwalloftextwithnocapitalletters. You should learn the basic rules for your codex before going on forums to post embarrassing advice to veterans. Also, Gargoyles flail helplessly against Necron AV11 rear walls, which is pretty common. They are good, but you don't want to overcommit.

[scorpio]

I have never used gargoyles much in either edition (partly because I don't have any! ) but I agree that in this edition they are looking to completely overtake hormagaunts in the combat league. Slightly annoying for me as I have 40 hormagaunts that won't get as much use now ah well, need to buy gargoyles!

[ravengoescaw]

I would never one more then 10, as a distraction. Yes they are cheaper but I will take my termas w/ Devourers over counting on my Gargoyles. I tried running 20 in a squad, my first two games. They just got shot down before they even got in range. 60 pts on a distraction to get my genestealers or Flyrant or Shrikes in range well worth it. 120, no way.

[thatnidguy]

Late reply =p I dont have 60 gargoyles yet. I plan to run to flyrants so 40 is a must. for the 120 points of gargoyles i had they managed to take out a squad of marine speeders and managed to survive to full sqauds of tac marines shooting at them. Having a flyrant with old adversary backing them up makes a HUGE difference. a big plus is , with hammer of wrath that PE works with its 1 free re-rollable attack, then comes the 2 attacks that count as a wound on the roll of a 6 plus re-roll for PE , as well as for the wounds. wounds do stack up rather quick. no as far as a main fighting force, i would agree with you . they are not a auto-game win, i think for the cost they are way better then having gaunts for the points , unless you have devilgaunts but for a 10 pt sponge that moves only 6" i would have to have a few. I am trying not to have the cookie -cutter tervigon core. i'm working on speed. Although i have been having my eye on some raveners. And people have to understand that units are going to get shot at, the point of the flock of gargoyles is TO cut the shooting range. imagine that you have 60 things flying at you with 2 flyrants a trygon and 2 10 man genes running at you. what are you going to shoot at? most likely the stealers or the trygon or the flock that is coming. I am also running a DOM , another trygon that DS and a unit of Zoanthropes thats DS and a 8 man unit of ymgarl stealers... just like anything the tactic works wonders " on paper" . i dohave to rework my list a bit. I just dont want to have the enemy be able to focus fire on any one threat. And i do love the feed back even if you wsay it sucks... just explain why =)

[Deleted]

With HoW added on top of their Blinding Venom, they are a great unit for adding pressure now. If you have big flocks of Gargoyles driving up the board off the bat your opponent will be forced to spend a lot of fire on them. I think they'll be fantastic.

[Davor]

Aug 2, 2012 7:33:07 GMT amareis said:

Or detach the Flyrant from his unit and go Flying MC on their asses. Charging a tough unit with 15-20 goyles and then a Flyrant afterwards will kill most things.

Um, I am puzzled by this. I am sure a Flyrant can't join a brood of gargoyles so how do you detach the Flayrant from the unit???

[jofan32]

I plan on using gargoyles and was gonna pimp them with t/s

[thatnidguy]

to my understanding a IC may join any unit as long as it is declared and has a 2" coherency

[wisdomseyes1]

Aug 5, 2012 15:28:03 GMT thatnidguy said:

to my understanding a IC may join any unit as long as it is declared and has a 2" coherency

The question is, do you see the independent character special rule anywhere on the hive tyrants profile?

Hive tyrants are characters (as defined in the rulebook) but are not independent characters (which is a rule more than a trait) and she will never be a IC for anything short of tyrant guard who have a special rule that treats the tyrant as an IC for joining them.

[DarkGuard]

thatnidguy, I just want to say that there's way anyone should be able to read your posts without making their eyes bleed. Please use some punctuation, capitol letters and paragraphs. If you make your posts easier to read, you'll get a better response.

wisdomseyes, with the hammer of wrath point I'm still undecided. One of the big downsides to Gargoyles is the size of the model and base. It just makes it harder to get loads of them into hitting range (I can't remember the actual name right now), although Pile In should help with that. But the point being, if we struggled to get all of them in hitting range in the assault phase, how does HoW become a fantastic point. You have to be in base contact, so you'll only get 5 or 6 added attacks at most on average, and they hit at S3 as well, toxin sacs or adrenal glands don't come into effect then. Hormagaunts will still get more attacks as they have more attacks base, are more likely to hit (thanks to scything talons) and are easier to get into hitting range.

Of course, Gargoyles are great, don't get me wrong. But for scoring status, Fleet+Bounding Leap, more base attacks and IB-Feed I prefer Hormagaunts at the moment. I like Gargoyles too, but Hormagaunts get an extra point in my book for being easier to transport and place on the table etc.

[Deleted]

Do what I Plan on doing, make your own rods for the flying stand of varying heights so the gargoyles can fit togethe when necessary.