Flame On (Acid Blood Query)

[Talonis]

Had a game last night against Blood Angels, 1750 Crusade (3 Objectives) & Long table edge deployment.

My List was:

HQ:
Swarmlord with 2 Guards with Lash Whips
(Swarmlord powers Invisibility, heamorage, puppet master and Iron arm)
Tyranid Prime

Elite:
Deathleaper (Targeting Mephiston bringing his LD -2)
3 Hive guard
2 Pyrovores in a Pod

Troops
10 Devilgants
14 Termagants
14 Termagants
Tervigon with 3 psychic powers (Codex)

Heavy:
2x Devilfex's

Blood Angles List was something along these lines:

Mephiston
Librarian

Corbello (2+ FnP!)
Assault terminators (5) 4 THSS, sgt LC
2x Tac squads

Ageis Defence line with Icarus cannon

Allies Imperial Guard:
Primaris Psyker
Veterans in Vendetta
2x Lemun Rus tanks

Night fighting first turn.

Basically the first turn, I was blasted with Battlecannon shots, taking multiple wounds from my Fex's and Prime and almost cleared my front gaunt screen. Unlucky cover saves in the Fex unit. However, the prime in the unit did spread the wounds around a bit.
I pretty much ran everything forward and onslaughted the hive guard to try to take out a tank... nothing happened.

2nd Turn saw the Vendetta arrive and combined shooting killed a fex and a few more gaunts. The Fex is left with a single wound as is the Prime.
I drop my pyrovores infront of the tac squad near the lemun russ, perfect for flaming, but the Icarus cannon killed a pyrovore, reducing the amount of firepower... and they faild to kill anything, although thegaunts killed 2. Tervigon didnt feel like spawning this game and stopped after making only 4 gaunts! Deathleaper just appeared at the back end, not needed just yet. Prime split from the fex & joined the swarmlord, the fex takes a hull point from the Vendetta.

3rd turn, Marines still hold their lines, placing firepower into the last remaining fex scoring 1st blood (took till turn 3 to get this!) and the vendetta started firing into the Swarmlord unit, placing a few wounds around the squad, with the help from other firepower (Battlecannons, Tac squad). Pyrovores are killed.
Prime regens a wound and the swarmlord advances forward, in charging range of the Terminators! The Swarmlord makes a mockery of the THSS while the Prime defeats the LC Sgt in a challenge (armed with 2x Boneswords and Toxin sacs!) The guards kill another 1 with rending claws and a single terminator is left. Deathleaper goes back into hiding.
Turn 4, the Vendetta zooms over the tyranids, moving towards my deployment zone, looking to get linebreaker, while the tac squad moves forward, led by Corbello, to eliminate the gaunts along the flank. Librarian and Primaris Psyker break off and destroy another unit of gaunts. The last terminator is obliterated by the Swarmlord. Corbello moves along the flank to engage the Devil gaunts.
The Tervigon rushes forward and engages the Psykers, crushing the Primaris psyker in a single hit, and wounding the Librarian, and shadow in the warp saved it from being wiped out by a force weapon.Deathleaper also appeared next to the devil gaunts holding the objective. The swarmlord and guards with the Prime head towards the Lemun russ and Tac squads at the objective within the defence lines. Charging into the unit, the Prime again deals with the Sgt challenging, while the Swarmlord destroys all but 3 marines, they fall back behind the tanks. With Corbello at the front leading the tac squads, the Hive guard see an opportunity to hit him with high S8 weapons! They hit him, but a brave marine jumps infront and saves Corbello from Instant Death.

Turn 5, The battle Tanks move to block off access to the objective, while the marines hide behind securing it. Mephiston runs away from the Unstoppable force of the Swarmlord, protecting the Warlord VP. Corbello and the squad engage the Devil gaunts, and kill them all. They consolidate on to the objective. The Lemun russ tanks fire into the Hive guards, killing 1 (Swarmlord was right ontop of the Tanks, it was almost a target, but the risk of hitting their own tanks or even the Tac squad was too high!). The Vendetta Unloaded the Veterans into my deployment zone, securing Line breaker, while firing its Lascannons into the hive guard. Taking a wound off one. The Librarian falls to the Tervigon. It consolidates towards the Objective in the Marines deployment zone.
Swarmlord and Prime split up to engage both tanks (Stupid move on my part, forgetting that the unit was a squadron!) and charges the tanks. Swarmlord crushes 1 while the Prime only takes a Hull point off the other. The hive guard move towards Corbello, but then fire at the now hovering Vendetta... taking it down in a single volley. Deathleaper strikes from the shadows, catching Corbello unaware as he is ripped to shreads by its massive talons! (Corbello recieved 2 rending and 1 regular wound, failing 1 2+ FnP against a rending hit, then failing his Armour save and another 2+ Fnp!! Epic mini win for me!)
The tervigon secures the objective and just sits there.

The game ended at that Turn. I was just out of range from the objective behind the tanks, which if I had of moved slightly different I would have contested. The tally was:

Nids: 1 objective, Linebreaker (4 VP)
Blood Angles: 1 Objective, Linebreaker and 1st Blood. (5 VP)

Very close game, great fun and some pretty cinematic moments ( Corbello shredded by Deathleaper & Swarmlord smashing through the Assault Terminators)

The Pyrovores didnt do too much in this, but did draw firepower. Because the way my opponent was deployed, he was actually worried about the 2x Heavy flamers about to hit one of his scoring units (Would have been about 16 hits!). This time it was a miss for the Pyrovore I think. I took photo's of the deployment and when the Swarmlord hit the Terminators, but was too caught up in the action to remember to take more!

[Deleted]

Thanks for the batrep man. Bitter sweet as your opponent really had an edge with the stuff 6e kept out of Tyranid hands, allies and gun emplacements.

[fragile]

Did you use puppet master at all? Using those vehicles to shoot at each other, or that model manning the Icarus is too much fun to pass up.

[Talonis]

No I didnt get to use puppet master, as most times I was casting Invisibility, and the time I did use puppet master, Mephiston denied it. He was camping behind the objective where the troops and tanks were ( in the defence lines). I didnt notice that he was using alot of the newer 6th ed stuff: Allies, Defence lines and Flyers.

[fragile]

Puppet Master is probably the most fun and potentially the most powerful tool you can get hold of. If you still have your guards around I would run with less Invis and more Puppet. The ability to shoot their most powerful guns at them is too cool.

[rpricew]

Nice job on the Batreps. I can see Pyrovores working in a deep striking list too. How do you find the large bases work when you're positioning them out of the pod or when you're trying to shoot as many people as possible?

Do you think the 60mm is a bonus or a detriment? I'm asking because I want to know your opinion first, and 2nd I only have 4th edition Biovores to proxy with on 40mm bases.

I want to try the Pyrovores properly.

[Talonis]

The 60mm bases I found not too bad coming out of the pods. The main downfall is the pods rule for disembarking, not giving as much room as a marine droppod.

This is one of the main reasons I try to drop near an onslaught tervigon, so I can get them into a more effective position before they ignite their target.

I'm really keen to see what they would do to a imperial guard blob unit thinking they're safe behind a defence line. Although my last game showed me the effectiveness of an interceptor weapon, I still think it would throw a spanner in the works against against those guardsmen thinking their safe

[Deleted]

Sept 27, 2012 16:45:29 GMT rpricew said:

Do you think the 60mm is a bonus or a detriment?

I'm always a bonus!

[Talonis]

^^ haha nice one 60mm!

Last night I had a weird 3 player free for all game, won't go too much into it, but I will highlight the Pyrovores actions.

Basically it was my Tyranids, vs Chaos Khorne world eaters vs another Tyranid player. He was fairly new playing Nids, I think his 2nd game only. So I didnt mind correcting him and giving some tips during the game as to what I would do.

Turn 2, I had my Spore with 2 Pyro's inside, land behind his un=it of stealers he had Infiltrated in the middle of the board. Between the pod and Pyros, they killed around 3 stealers and the Broodlord (who failed all 3 Lo,S rolls!) The 2 stealers remain charge the Pod, and die to overwatch!

This is where something interesting happened. He was using OOE, and decided to charge the Pyrovores (Because the rest of his army would have been prime flame targets next turn if he didnt deal with them, also the other forces were commited to the chaos coming from the other side).
Pyrovores didnt hurt OOE in CC, but OOE caused 10 wounds! The Pyrovores didnt explode, but they annihilated OOE in return with acid blood! I think it was 6 failed Initiative tests.

Some one maybe able to correct me if this was wrong, but here is how I saw this:

OOE caused 10 wounds which in return caused 10 unsaved wounds,
Acid blood causes the unit which caused the wounds to make an init test for each unsaved wound caused,
OOE is Init 1, but has Living battering ram +2 init on the turn it charges giving a total of Init 3 for this round (But striked at Init 1 for CC),
OOE Takes 10 Init 3 tests and no armour or cover saves allowed.

Did I do this correctly? Or are the tests taken at the Init step being Init 1?

[WestRider]

I'm not actually even sure how many Tests OOE would have to take here. I can think of reasonable arguments for 2 (Each takes a single Unsaved Wound, and then Instant Death "reduces" it to 0 Wounds and removes it), 4 (Each takes an Unsaved Wound, and the removal of the other Wound by Instant Death is treated as another Unsaved Wound), 10 (The total number of successful Wound Rolls OOE actually made), and 20 (10 successful Wound Rolls that cause Instant Death against 2 Wound Models).

I believe he takes the Init Tests at I3, but I'm not entirely sure. The Rules on Characteristic Tests refer to using the value "on the Profile", and no examples are given of taking Modifiers into account.

[glassiya]

Sept 30, 2012 21:35:16 GMT Talonis said:

OOE caused 10 wounds which in return caused 10 unsaved wounds,
Acid blood causes the unit which caused the wounds to make an init test for each unsaved wound caused,
OOE is Init 1, but has Living battering ram +2 init on the turn it charges giving a total of Init 3 for this round (But striked at Init 1 for CC),
OOE Takes 10 Init 3 tests and no armour or cover saves allowed.

Did I do this correctly? Or are the tests taken at the Init step being Init 1?

first of all, characteristic test always use unmodified value, correct? therefore, it's always Ini1 for him.
second - Acid Blood works only when model receives unsaved wound. Once Pyro receives unsaved wound with s10... well, he can't receive anymore since he's crushed to bloody pulp already. Still, there's 3 chances for Volatile explosions, and whole turn of shooting beofre regen, so that wouldn't change anything.

Please, don't make this guy forget OOE because of this. You're running Pyros, you should know, what is it, to use model no one respects. Give him advice on it - there's nothing like Old One mutilating Plague marines, dismembering DeathCompany with corbullo or one-shotting Malantai with 10 wounds drained.

[Deleted]

glassiya said:

Acid Blood works only when model receives unsaved wound. Once Pyro receives unsaved wound with s10... well, he can't receive anymore since he's crushed to bloody pulp already.

I haven't read anything in the rule book or an FAQ saying anything like this. If OOE gets 10 hits on a couple Pyrovores, you don't roll for each wound one at a time. You roll all at the same time as would normally do, because for all you know OOE will roll 10 1s and no one gets hurt. I haven't seen any rules saying that the moment an attack causing ID is allocated that all other attacks are discarded for all other purposes, and seeing as it has some big implications in some circumstances I'd imagine it being outlined if GW wished. Acid Blood is detailed a bit more in the FAQ a couple times and they mention nothing about this, so RAW is that if OOE did inflict 10 wounds, he would incur 10 AB tests. You are coming up with your ruling using the way it makes sense to you but there's no basis for it in the rules, if there is please point me to the page. Not being sarcastic btw.

Crazy result? Yes, but how often does an i1 model get 10 attacks? This is a pretty rare circumstance and hardly worth house-ruling an already rarely-used biomorph just so OOE doesn't get savaged because he made a stupid charge. I would never charge a Stonecrusher into an AB model because of this. I don't see this discouraging anyone from using OOE, just learning not to charge AB models with OOE. Just like charging MSS with SL isn't a great idea, doesn't mean SL is bad. Just not a good scenario for him.

[coredump]

Actually, it makes perfect sense. You roll for all of the wounds, but they get allocated to a model one wound at a time.

[Deleted]

Upon looking into my LRB on this matter, OOE would indeed only incur one AB test per ID. Under "Allocating Wounds' for the Assault Phase, "Once a model has a wound allocated to it, you must continue to allocate Wounds to it until it is either removed as a casualty or the Wound pool is empty."

So in this scenario, OOE would have ended up taking two AB tests (at most) at i1.

[seanster3000]

How does the Swarmlord get all those powers? According to the rulebook if you choose to use the new powers in the rulebook then you only get a number of powers UPTO your mastery level. The Swarmlord is mastery level 2 therefore you can only have 2 powers not 4. The rule is very clear, so the way I understand it is that when you select from one (or more) of the new powers from the rulebook the Swarmlord only gets 2 max, but if he stays with the powers from the codex then he gets them all. I am also confused with his Bone Sabers do they follow the same rules for Bone Swords in that they completely ignore armor?