Help me understand this...

[masterofillusion]

Back when it was allowed, null deploying was my favorite kind of list to build, very sad that it is no longer a thing... however, I've noticed that some of you still manage to almost "null deploy" having about 1 unit on the board turn 1. This is done by abusing the rule that units that HAVE to start the game in reserve don't count for determining the "half". My question is, does a unit that took the mycetic spore upgrade really count as HAVING to come in from reserve and therefor e wouldn't count towards the "half" of your units that have to be on the board? Thanks for the help clearing up this issue, my favorite list may not be screwed after all.

[kurbutti]

As per our FAQ, a unit cannot choose to abandon their dedicated transport prior to deployment, thus they are required to start their game in reserves.

This is done by abusing the rule that units that HAVE to start the game in reserve don't count for determining the "half".

Funny that you think this is "abuse". Especially when explictly allowed by the rulebook.

[jifel]

Its not abuse at all, it just means null deployment lists must be all spore now.

[coredump]

All armies 'don't count' units in dedicated transports that have to start in reserves. (Pods, flyers, etc.)

Nids don't even need that allowance, since if you take a Myspore, the brood *has* to stay in reserves... no choice at all.

[liquid405]

Causing you to lose the game if your opponent goes first.

[Bot]

Jul 31, 2012 20:41:40 GMT liquid405 said:

Causing you to lose the game if your opponent goes first.

I do have the rule book at my side... But being that lazy kind of dude... you know... I'm just too lazy to pick it up... However, I'm pretty sure that you lose the game (I lost the game), if you have nothing on the table... But only if it is at the end of your turn. (I'm probably wrong... But whatever...) *Slams head into table* "ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz".

[Princelarming]

You loose the game if at the end of "a game turn" - (ie. both your turn and your opponents - in any order) you don't have any models on the board... That takes something to accomplish

[gloomfang]

It is at the end of a Game Turn if you have no models on the table you lose. And I have seen it happen twice so far (in games I was watching).

In one the guy used drop pod assualt to drop in 2 units of Vanguard (He went first). Between the 2 rounds of CC and some shooting both units and drop pods were killed by by the end of turn 1 and the guy lost.

The second was a BA army that took 3 squads of IG with a command squad behind an aegis line back near the board edge. Demon player sent his entire 1/2 of his army to kill them and they failed a morale check and went running off the board Turn 1.

[N.I.B.]

Jul 29, 2012 18:23:38 GMT masterofillusion said:

This is done by abusing the rule

You choice of words reveal your lack of knowledge, and annoys me.

[squash]

I don't understand, I was under the impression that null deploy no longer works because nothing can come in from reserve in turn 1, wouldn't that be an automatic loss?

[wisdomseyes1]

Jul 31, 2012 23:34:27 GMT squash said:

I don't understand, I was under the impression that null deploy no longer works because nothing can come in from reserve in turn 1, wouldn't that be an automatic loss?

I am trying to understand what you just said, but I will guess rather than just ignore what you said altogether.

You lose if you have nothing on the board at the end of any game turn. If you keep all your models in reserves, you lose unless they have a special rule that says they enter turn one (like drop pods or daemons) If at the end of turn one (the person who goes second ends his turn) you have no models on the board, you lose.

[squash]

Right, so if you were to attempt a null deploy list with Tyranids you would lose automatically at the end of game turn 1.

Wisdomseyes1, that sentence was grammatically correct, so cut the constant attitude at me "Los Angelas".

[fragile]

Jul 31, 2012 21:37:52 GMT Princelarming said:

You loose the game if at the end of "a game turn" - (ie. both your turn and your opponents - in any order) you don't have any models on the board... That takes something to accomplish

Just clarifying here. A "Game Turn" is different from a "Player Turn". The game turn is both players turns combined.

[wisdomseyes1]

Aug 1, 2012 2:26:19 GMT squash said:

Wisdomseyes1, that sentence was grammatically correct, so cut the constant attitude at me "Los Angelas".

I didn't say it was grammatically incorrect. I said it had no meaning behind it. You spoke words that were English, but it seemed to be a response to somethig you did not quote or cite. It lacked any clarification to what you did not understand or the situation you were referring to. There is no addittude in my post other than how you choose to tea it with your fabricated thoughts towards me and that's fine. I answered your question to the best of my ability with the information I was given, and that isn't much.

Null deployment also doesnt work well because keeping 1 or 2 models on the board at the beginning of the game in a shooting metagame, turns your 2 models against every point of firepower in your opponents army, causing a huge investment and risk ring placed into them. The only models that could survive the onslaught of firepower alone are not consistent with the original null deployment tactic, remodeling it for less points in reserve... Causing weaker initial impact as units do come in.

It is just all around less effective than before.

[squash]

Honestly, I'm not sure what an 'additude' is, I assume it's some kind of food additive, is it why you asked how I choose to 'tea' it? Is this a 'Los Angelas' thing?