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Post by scorpio on Jul 27, 2012 19:26:42 GMT
I played against a friend today who plays chaos marines and tau. We hadn't decided who would be battling, just that it would be 40k. I only play Nids in 40k so it was pretty obvious for him I would be choosing. Any way I digress, here is my list:
HQ - The Swarmlord - 280pts
Troops - 3 tyranid warriors w/ ST, DS + TS - 120pts
- 16 Termagants w/ TS - 96pts
- 16 hormagaunts w/ TS - 128pts
- 8 genestealers w/ TS - 136pts
- 3 ripper swarms - 30pts
Heavy support - Trygon w/ TS - 210pts
TOTAL = 1000pts
My basic plan was to get the hormones into combat and give them preferred enemy or furious charge beforehand thanks to the swarmlord. The trygon was going to pop up behind the enemy lines and munch any tanks he had hidden and the gene stealers would outflank to provide another target. Gangs and rippers mainly for cover and the tyranid warriors for some medium units to help provide support. It didn't work like that at all.
Forgive me for I don't play tau or know the equipment so this next bit might be a tad confusing. His list had:
HQ - battle suit commander w/ shield drone, melta gun Thingy(possibly fusion blaster), and a str3 AP4 assault 5 gun I don't know the name of.
Elites - 3 battle suits w/ plasma rifles and missile pods in a unit w/ 2 gun drones
- 1 battle suit w/ twin linked flamed ( they all had jetpacks)
Troops - 4 units of 6 fire warriors each including a squad leader w/ a marker light
Fast attack - 4 gun drones
Heavy support - hammerhead w/ rail gun
Sorry if a bit confusing but I think that comes to around 1000pts.
Turn 1-tau
Basically he jumped forward with his jet pack battle suits and shot the warriors to pieces, then used marker lights on each others units (fire warriors) and shot the gants to pieces. Wiped out a few more with hammerhead and then jumped back behind cover. Ripper bases got shot and get subsequently pinned.
Turn 1-Nids
Cast 'iron arm' on swarmlord and killed some drones with haemorrhage (only kills I made in the battle) and moved the remaining gants and hormagaunts forward. Nothing in range so ended turn.
Turn 2 -tau
Hormagaunts are wiped out with a flamer shot from a battlesuit that jumped to a very annoyingly good position. gun drones shoot into Termagants and kill all but 2. Marker lights on swarmlord and he gets hammered by everything else. He dies.
Turn 2 -Nids
Trygon comes in, gene stealers don't. Only things left in my army are 2 gants and 2 rippers still pinned. Trygon shoots at one of the units of fire warriors and fails to kill any. Gants shoot at battlesuits and do nothing then lead a suicidal charge and get killed by overwatch.
Turn 3-tau
Battlesuit flames rippers and kills them. Rest of army marker light the trygon and shoot it to bits.
I have no objectives (obviously), and the tau win with 4 victory points (1 objective, slain the warlord, behind enemy lines and first blood. Basically I got owned.
Thanks for persevering and reading this as it's quite long. I really need a better list to help fight an army like this, I'm thinking more monstrous creatures. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. : )
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Post by nalathani on Jul 27, 2012 19:34:22 GMT
From the looks of it you have a battleforce with a Tyrant and Trygon. You could definetely change things up. Against Tau you don't want to be walking across the board, you want to give him a single turn to shoot you before you are on him. Here's what I would do:
Make your Swarmlord a Tyrant, give him wings and Hive Commander.
Get a can of spray foam (should be like 4 bucks, used to fill cracks in houses), some old CD's and some old wire (any kind will do). Get a can of spray paint (another 4 bucks) that's the same color as your base coat.
Build 3 or 4 Mycetic spores on the cheap. =P
Give all of your Termagants Devourers, and put them in a pod. Put your warriors in a pod. Genestealers can infiltrate on an objective and then stay there for the duration of the game, going to ground as needed. Trygon can burrow. Hormagaunts can outflank with Hive Commander.
You should have 2+ on your reserve rolls, so almost everything will come in turn 2. Your Tyrant can start 48 inches away so the only thing that can hit him is a Railgun. Have him swoop and run turn 1, that's 24 inches of movement plus 2d6 running. He'll be closer, but if you stick him behind a ruin he should be ok, with Hard to Hit and 4+ cover. Make sure he's more than 24 inches away from rapid fire weapons.
On turn 2 spores will drop, outflankers come in, trygon burrows up, Tyrant flies in. He'll probably gun down a unit or two, but once turn 3 comes up you'll be assault, and Tau suck in assault.
Good luck!
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Post by zephoid on Jul 27, 2012 19:38:16 GMT
Without the crisis suits im not sure how he had enough firepower to kill the swarmlord in 1 turn. Markerlights only work for 1 unit and hes not denying armor except with the hammerhead and the commander's fusion blaster. Also, with 6th edition, you only need 25% covered to get saves, meaning almost anything, even taller gaunts, could give him cover.
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Post by scorpio on Jul 27, 2012 19:38:32 GMT
nalathani Thanks, I took the list from GW as a good all rounder but it turned belly up in these conditions. I definitely think your right with all out spore assault. Will try it in the future! ; )
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Post by scorpio on Jul 27, 2012 19:41:24 GMT
zephoid he had already killed most of the gants and they all had a clear shots at him. The battlesuits did shoot as they hadn't shot anything yet. The other gun drones shot the gants and the single battlesuit was in a different unit.
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Post by fnorrll on Jul 28, 2012 0:06:27 GMT
Personally, I think youre big mistake was taking swarmy at 1000pts. He is a beast in CC but at a game that small he is a big investment with no tyrant guard and he isnt the quickest across the board. Personally I would switch him out for (in order of preference) Tervigon, Prime, Flyrant. I put flyrant last as it is also a big investment and 1k points but at least he is faster across the board.
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Post by vivi22 on Jul 28, 2012 2:53:36 GMT
I have to agree with nalathani in general. The last thing you want to have to do is foot slog it across the table against Tau. Deny them their ability to shoot for as long as you can and you're better off. I've yet to play against them in 6th, but I actually stopped doing mostly reserve lists against a friend of mine at one point because I was tabling him almost every time by denying him the chance to shoot me and getting into combat before he could really do anything. In fact, the last time I used a mostly reserve list against him I tabled him without losing a single unit.
Cross the board quickly, either with fast units or by dropping/infiltrating and Tau have a hard time dealing with it. Devilgaunts in particular are quite brutal, though not as much as the Doom of Malantai can be if dropped in the middle of a few fire warrior and Kroot units. If you roll well that is.
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Post by sturm on Jul 28, 2012 2:55:09 GMT
nalathani Thanks, I took the list from GW as a good all rounder but it turned belly up in these conditions. I definitely think your right with all out spore assault. Will try it in the future! ; ) GW has the worst lists around. They look cool, they're fluffy, they sound like they can hurt, but really i've never seen one working. Plus, IIRC the lists up on their website were made in 5th edition. The tactic section is full of good lists and discussions about unit effectiveness, both for casual and competitive games. You should check it out, it really helps. |
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Post by wisdomseyes1 on Jul 28, 2012 3:01:09 GMT
I looked at your list and found the problem. The one and only problem... Swarm lord at 1000 points? 0.o
I'm sorry, scratch that. Swarm lord AND trygon? Half of your army is in 2 models that only work in close combat and you are wondering why taus s5 mass firepower gunned down your army who consisted of 2 models plus some close combat models who are suggificantly slower in this edition and get wounde on 2's, no armor?
This list, I think, wouldnt work against anything with guns... To be frank.
...
And I don't like being frank because my name is mark >_>
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Post by nidzy on Jul 28, 2012 3:43:45 GMT
Tau got a pretty solid boost in this edition: 15" rapid fire is big, crisis suits can now jump up to 12" in the assault phase, black sun filters are now worth their points, and marker lights benefit greatly from the reduced cover.
With that said, I agree with the feedback you have received this far. Swarmlord is too much for 1k, and you have to find a way to not walk into several turns of tau shooting. Any unit in our codex will break a tau fire line in assault. It is just a matter of getting them there!
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Post by coredump on Jul 28, 2012 4:17:46 GMT
Often when things are way one-sided, there are rules 'issues' going on; there are definitely things that seem fishy. Turn 1-tau Basically he jumped forward with his jet pack battle suits and shot the warriors to pieces, then used marker lights on each others units (fire warriors) and shot the gants to pieces. Wiped out a few more with hammerhead and then jumped back behind cover. Ripper bases got shot and get subsequently pinned. Few things off the bat. Were your warriors in cover? If not what was a big mistake on your part. Tau is very shooty, you need to keep things in cover, at least on the first turn. His battle suits can only move 6", shoot, then move 6" back. Some folks try moving 12" or 2d6". Also, did they move 'back' behind cover, or forward behind cover? The HQ had a Fusion Blaster, and a Cyclic Ion Blaster; they have a 12" and 18" range respectively. Which means there is no way to use them on the first turn. He was over 24" away, jumps forward 6"... still too far. The Crises suits could use their Plasma and Missiles... and if you were not in cover, they will hurt... but that is still only 3 shots each; so 6 shots at BS3, and 3 shots at BS 4 or 5; which means maybe 5 hits, and probably 4 wounds. So you lose a warrior. (If in cover, should not lose any) Remember the warrior being shot (the closest) only needs 25% obscurement from *one* of the suits. the gun drones with the crises suits also have an 18" range, so no shooting for them. The Fire Warriors: This is how the Markerlight situation should have worked. FW unit 1 shoots at the termagaunts, 5 shoot guns, one shoot markerlights; *if* the markerlight hits, then you put down a marker. This unit gets no benefits from any marker lights. FW unit2 shoot at the *same* gaunts, they can use the markerlight, but then it is gone. If the Markerlight hits, you can put down a marker. repeat. If he decides to shoot at the HGaunts instead, he can't use the ML marker on the termagaunts. The only useful thing the Markerlights could do is reduce the cover save by one, or increase their BS by one. Remember, the markerlights have to hit to be usable; and used only by a unit shooting later in the phase. So, assuming the first three ML shots hit (unlikely) that means there are 5 shots at BS3, and 15 shots at BS4. So.... lets say 13 hits. So 11 wounds. Which means 11 dead termagaunts if out of cover, or 5-6 dead if in cover. Did the Hammehead jump back behind cover? And who shot at the rippers? He doesn't have any units left. How many HGaunts were left? How many got hit by a flamer? At this point you probably realize that you need to be careful about bunching up your Hgaunts. Were they really only 6-7" away from the crises suits? And not in terrain? Gun drones get 1 shot each, Tlinked but BS2. And you killed some last turn. Was the Swarmlord not in cover? He had Iron Arm, so should have had stupid high T. I assume he didn't have Endurance available? How many markerlights hit? He can't be left on his own, needs Guards, or at least cover saves. this was your biggest mistake. You put 30% of your army into one model with only a 3+ save. And put another 40% of you army into reserves. Since they were CC units, they would be useless the turn them come in from reserves. The Trygon and Stealers should have started on the board. |
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Post by nidzy on Jul 28, 2012 5:16:40 GMT
Coredump: my understanding is that crisis suits now get 2d6 for their Assault jump. Is this not the case?
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Post by wisdomseyes1 on Jul 28, 2012 5:31:49 GMT
Coredump: my understanding is that crisis suits now get 2d6 for their Assault jump. Is this not the case? You are correct, it was part if the tau errata. |
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Post by coredump on Jul 28, 2012 7:08:58 GMT
(Stuff removed)
edit: blech.... when I was looking at the Jet Pack rules, under Thrust Move, I got distracted by the second paragraph, which says it moves just like in the movement phase; which means 6". I missed the big honking paragraph above it where it specifically states it can get a 2d6" move... the second paragraph was not referring to distance, but rather going over terrain, etc.
My bad folks. They can jump 6" in movement, and 2d6" during assault phase.
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Post by scorpio on Jul 28, 2012 10:10:16 GMT
coredump firstly the warriors weren't in cover which was a very poor decision on my part. He was very lucky with his hits and so that's why he killed the warriors. He said that marker lights always hit on 2+ so that's why he hit with all of them. He then said that the guy that shot it could also shoot with his gun. Not sure if that's right. He made it so that they bolstered each other uits to BS 5 so they were hitting in 2's and wounding on 2's. I used the swarmlord simply because i was wondering how he would do in a small battle and he sucked. Iron arm only gave him +1 toughness and he got loads of 6's to wound so to be fair he got really lucky. The battlesuit with the flamer jumped towards the hormagaunts last turn so he was in prime position to flame them. Grouped them up to much.  . In general the comments are really helping and I am realising to trust the hive, not GW for list making : )
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