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Post by swarmy on Jul 27, 2012 4:56:23 GMT
Well, I think I found the most irritating list to fight against yet in 6th: Swarmlord deathstar. I'm kind of pissed off at the guy for even putting it out there since he refused to say what was in it at all till it was all coming in the game. I'm pretty convinced the 530pt core of the list is un-killable by other nids the list I had on hand:
== HQ ==
Swarmlord Brood (430 pts.)
Swarmlord (1) = 280 pts.
Tyrant Guard (2) - Bonesword = 150 pts.
Tyranid Prime (1) - Deathspitter, Lash Whip And Bonesword = 100 pts.
== Elites ==
Zoanthrope Brood (170 pts.)
Zoanthrope (2) = 120 pts.
Mycetic Spore (1) - Twin-Linked Deathspitter = 50 pts.
Zoanthrope Brood (170 pts.)
Zoanthrope (2) = 120 pts.
Mycetic Spore (1) - Twin-Linked Deathspitter = 50 pts.
== Troops ==
Termagant Brood (190 pts.)
Termagant (14) - Devourer = 140 pts.
Mycetic Spore (1) - Twin-Linked Deathspitter = 50 pts.
Termagant Brood (190 pts.)
Termagant (14) - Devourer = 140 pts.
Mycetic Spore (1) - Twin-Linked Deathspitter = 50 pts.
== Total ==
1250 pts.
That is my rough recollection of his list. Absolutely, no contest, Tabled me. So if you want a good start for a 6th list that does pretty decent. Maybe less so against lascannon/missile spam but hey, less of that lately.
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Post by wisdomseyes1 on Jul 27, 2012 4:59:26 GMT
Suggestion: avoid close combat with the death star. It turns it into a different kind of advantage for him (area control) but you won't be tabled.
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Post by fragile on Jul 27, 2012 5:06:19 GMT
Unkillable ?? Well I kinda doubt it, but I dont play at 1250 much. Unbeatable, most definitely not. With two very fragile troop choices there, he will struggle during objective based missions. Not to mention he is giving up alot of targets for round 1 shooting. Mass Firepower will definitely eat into that Deathstar. An assassin squad of shrikes will definitely own it, as well as a flying DakkaTyrant.
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Post by squash on Jul 27, 2012 6:08:51 GMT
I'm with Wisdom here, the way to beat a deathstar is to just not get into close combat with it.
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Post by Jabberwocky on Jul 27, 2012 6:45:00 GMT
Just feed it termagants all game. Don't assault, just get in the way so he has to assault them to get anywhere. If he tries to go backward/around, keep piling shooting into it.
Another dirty trick I've not had a chance to use yet:
Spam telepathy. Dominate and Terrify can bring fearless deathstars/blobs to a standstill. Coupled with devourer shooting you can actually break the unit from outside SitW range. Once broken, you can risk a charge. If they fail to regroup they are wiped. If you can surround them before making them break, they are wiped too. Risky but fun.
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Post by coredump on Jul 27, 2012 7:30:15 GMT
I am betting a swarm of TS Hgaunts will do quite a number on that brood.
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Post by N.I.B. on Jul 27, 2012 8:36:19 GMT
In 6th edition, 5/6 missions are objective games. Play all five in a row and kill his 2x14 Devilgants every time. Profit.
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Post by reallysorry on Jul 27, 2012 11:49:49 GMT
Yeah troop choices are really weak. This list would probably work better at 2k points with a couple of Tervigons also as troops.
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Post by amareis on Jul 27, 2012 11:50:54 GMT
Can you tell us how he played that list and what you fielded?
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Post by Bot on Jul 27, 2012 12:28:22 GMT
I am betting a swarm of TS Hgaunts will do quite a number on that brood. This. Watch the deathstar crumble in agony. |
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Post by swarmy on Jul 27, 2012 15:17:59 GMT
== HQ == Hive Tyrant (1) - Scything Talons, Lash Whip And Bonesword, Wings, Paroxysm, Leech Essence, Hive Commander = 255 pts. == Elites == Lictor Brood (2) = 130 pts. Venomthrope (1) = 55 pts. Hive Guard Brood (2) = 100 pts. == Troops == Termagant Brood (10) - Devourer = 100 pts. Tyranid Warrior Brood (110 pts.) Tyranid Warrior (2) - Deathspitter, Scything Talons = 70 pts. Tyranid Warrior (1) - Barbed Strangler, Scything Talons = 40 pts. Termagant Brood (18) - Fleshborer = 90 pts. Termagant Brood (19) - Fleshborer = 95 pts. Broodlord Brood (144 pts.) Broodlord (1) = 60 pts. Genestealer (6) = 84 pts. == Heavy Support == Mawloc (1) = 170 pts. == Total == 1249 pts. (yah it's not geared towards anything in particular, still working out the kinks in my 6th edition lists and losing a lot) I would have thought avoiding it as long as I tried to would have worked but by turn 5 on that stupid diagonal deployment it was pretty darn hard to move since there were 4 spores, 4 zoanthropes, devilgants and a wall of death creating a solid line across my only exit point to get to the other objective...much less out of that corner of the board. I know you guys have some good suggestions but that game was a loss from the start; you can't tailor for what you had no idea was coming. Also, I only have 16 painted hormagaunt models with ts/ag glued on. I'm pretty sure the prime being next to the swarmlord he would have beat that unit to the punch and killed off that entire brood; shrugging off all the wounds with saves/endurance buff (it will not die/feel no pain shrugged off 100% of the wounds put on that unit in my game). If I played it again I could have stretched him thinner infiltrating the genestealers and placing the lictor/mawloc elsewhere for a solid line-breaker point. Furthermore, I could have not squandered my tyrant trying to cut an exit out of the mess. Based on where his scoring units were, I still had my objective all the way up till the end stalling the deathstar at the center between the two objectives. I should have kept my T8 buffed broodlord to myself and sat on that objective  Hindsight is 20/20. |
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Post by killme304 on Jul 27, 2012 15:33:42 GMT
Your warrior brood will get wiped off the map way too quickly for the points your spending.
I don't know about your shop, but everywhere I've ever played didn't force you to attach glands and sacs, just like every marine doesn't need to have grenades modeled on. You just have to have the important things like main weapons (so scything talons in this case, or a chainsword/pistol on standard assault marines).
And yes, I agree with your assessment that you should have just tar-pitted him to hell and back holding an objective.
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Post by swarmy on Jul 27, 2012 16:08:56 GMT
People say that constantly yet my warriors are still alive on turn 5 practically every game I've played in the past month. I'm going to stuff a tervigon in my next list and move points around pretty drastically so I may not bring them if I'm good on synapse/scoring units. Probably minus one termagant brood and minus the warriors with the tervigon as a troop (I dread rolling low and doubles spawning, hence my aversion to them).
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Post by coredump on Jul 27, 2012 18:12:21 GMT
Swarmy, you are changing your statement. You started by saying that deathstar was 'unkillable'; and we are showing that it is not. Yes, even HGaunts can take it down.
Now, if you want to know about how your army could have dealt with it, that is a different issue
In either case, the important thing to remember is that DS is 530 points, about 40% of his army, geared towards one CC bad ass unit. Of course hitting it with 14 Hgaunts isn't going to do any good (140 vs 530)
The *worst* thing you can do is keep hitting it with one unit after another. If you try to take it out, you need *at least* 400 pts of units, and preferably more like 6-700. Otherwise just tarpit it and keep moving.
To tarpit this, send your gaunts to be 1" away, and just stay there, That will keep him from being able to Move or Run, and will need to assault those gaunts. You likely don't need very many to pull this off, so if one of your broods had taken losses, use that one.
If you do need to use a larger brood, you could assault him, since he can't kill them all in one turn anyway.
Now send everything else you have at the rest of his army. Take out everything.
Hive guard should get the zoans, then Spores to ID them
Lictors either Zoans or Spores, stay away from the devilgaunts
Gaunts shoot whatever is in range,
same with the warriors.
Everything else he has is only T4 or T3, so everything you have can hurt it.
Stealers are good against Spores, okay against zoans
HT probably best against zoans, but can handle anything. Partly this depends on what powers his zoans have. If witchfire, you wnat to get them tied up in CC, otherwise just make sure they die at some point.
Anyway... kill everything he has, while keeping the deathstar impotent and immobile. Once almost everything else is dead, then you can make a decision. If you think you can win, you can throw your entire army at his deathstar, or... you can continue to keep it occupied, and just go grab objectives etc.
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Post by swarmy on Jul 27, 2012 18:42:46 GMT
Swarmy, you are changing your statement. You started by saying that deathstar was 'unkillable'; and we are showing that it is not. Yes, even HGaunts can take it down. Now, if you want to know about how your army could have dealt with it, that is a different issue In either case, the important thing to remember is that DS is 530 points, about 40% of his army, geared towards one CC bad ass unit. Of course hitting it with 14 Hgaunts isn't going to do any good (140 vs 530) The *worst* thing you can do is keep hitting it with one unit after another. If you try to take it out, you need *at least* 400 pts of units, and preferably more like 6-700. Otherwise just tarpit it and keep moving. To tarpit this, send your gaunts to be 1" away, and just stay there, That will keep him from being able to Move or Run, and will need to assault those gaunts. You likely don't need very many to pull this off, so if one of your broods had taken losses, use that one. If you do need to use a larger brood, you could assault him, since he can't kill them all in one turn anyway. Now send everything else you have at the rest of his army. Take out everything. Hive guard should get the zoans, then Spores to ID them Lictors either Zoans or Spores, stay away from the devilgaunts Gaunts shoot whatever is in range, same with the warriors. Everything else he has is only T4 or T3, so everything you have can hurt it. Stealers are good against Spores, okay against zoans HT probably best against zoans, but can handle anything. Partly this depends on what powers his zoans have. If witchfire, you wnat to get them tied up in CC, otherwise just make sure they die at some point. Anyway... kill everything he has, while keeping the deathstar impotent and immobile. Once almost everything else is dead, then you can make a decision. If you think you can win, you can throw your entire army at his deathstar, or... you can continue to keep it occupied, and just go grab objectives etc. By my list and deployment the *core* of it sure was un-killable. I agree everything else should have been killable but horrifically bad dice rolls said otherwise. Also, I couldn't avoid devilgants because they were dropped on my face creating a wall of deathspitter/ripper tentacle and devourer fire every turn. Don't get snappy with me Coredump ; I know you are a better player and I appreciate tactics help. That's why I'm on this forum. I just thought it was an interesting list he was using so I posted it. Based on my limited experience and someone I talked to after the fact it seems to have the potential to ruin other armies day if you don't tell them what's in the list till afterwards. In hindsight I see how it's a one trick pony. I now know exactly what to do if he ever thinks about using that again...which based on his track record I doubt. |
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