New wound allocation confusion

[wisdomseyes1]

I was playing with my friend today, and an issue came up (shocking how the issue ame up during a game, right?)

Now in 5th, you allocated one wound to every model until you could allocate another to the next model. In this edition, it can only be allocated on the closest model.

Now here is my issue. I had thousand sons marines emptying their shells into some black templar HQ with a 3+ save and a storm shield. The GW was in a unit of 10 marines (for simplicity sake, it was less after the game went on)

When I shot at him, one of my friends said that with the wound allocation the way it is, you now keep taking saves on the closest model until he fails and then you may go to the back?

That doesn't sound right to me, because it makes characters able to take all the hits for the unit without any downsides if they are tough enough (like in this example where they are just bolster shots into a 3 wound character)

Is he correct? Or is it similar to last edition where you, on wounds greater than the max number of wounds, begin to allocate behind him?

[Jabberwocky]

The character would take them until he dies, fast rolling as many as he had wounds for at a time.

Once he dies, the next closest does the same, then the next and so on.

The exception is if he elects to use look out sir! BEFORE taking saves, to have a different model than the character take those saves and wounds instead.

[coredump]

Could you go over that again Wisdom? I am not clear on exactly what was happening in that game.

[gloomfang]

From your example yes they are doing it right. The shots go into the closest model until it is dead. I have seen a lot of people using ICs with artificer or terminator armour tanking for the rest of the unit.

Just make sure that they know they can not LOS! after they fail a save in a mixed armor unit. If they have 3+ marines with a 2+ Terminator in front they have to say if they are rolling the LOS! when the wound is allocated.

[fragile]

Imagine a line of Terminator, single file, being led into battle by a Storm Shield Terminator. A unit shooting at that squad of Terminators would apply all its wounds into the SS Term (closest), until he fails his 3++ save. Then it would be applied to the next closest model. (is the way I'm reading his example).

[turndamage]

It seems correct. The wound allocation now goes by armor saves, not weapon load-outs. So if you have that one guy with a 2+ save, and the rest of the squad has 3+, so long as that 2+ is closest to your shooting squad, he takes all the hits until he dies.

Other examples could be your armored shell (2+) hive tyrant with his tyrant guards (3+). Or a T Prime with a group of warriors.

[wisdomseyes1]

Jul 23, 2012 7:08:03 GMT coredump said:

Could you go over that again Wisdom? I am not clear on exactly what was happening in that game.

Sorry for sloppy posting. I'll try to get better as time goes on. Maybe I should just get the stupid dollar proboards app, that might help :/

Anyway, it was questioning, a jabberwocky confirmed, the legitimacy of fast rolling until a character dies.

Apperently it is true, which is a scary thought with how many characters there are.

In my example there was a 3 wound SS character who wasn't getting armor in a 10 man unit. I did 8 wounds to him.

I was asking does he
A) roll 1 save at a time on the character until it died
Or
B) allocate 3 wounds to the character then begin allocating then back farther into the unit and take saves like that.

I was skeptical on A, because that makes a unit with a character in it very much meaner, when the character can take the shots an the rest of the unit can't.

[gloomfang]

I was asking does he
A) roll 1 save at a time on the character until it died
Or
B) allocate 3 wounds to the character then begin allocating then back farther into the unit and take saves like that.

I was skeptical on A, because that makes a unit with a character in it very much meaner, when the character can take the shots an the rest of the unit can't.[/quote]

The answer is A. If you are fast rolling then you roll W-1 (so 2 dice with your example). If you accidently over allocate you need to reroll all the failed saves on the next model (if they get a save. If not just pick up all the dead ones. They die when a wound that can't be saved is put on them.)

[fragile]

A. You roll 1 save at a time until he dies. Then allocate the next wound the the next closest and roll his save, IF the group all has mixed saves that apply. If you have a group that has all the same save (for that group of wounds) then you can fast roll all the saves at once and then remove from the front to the back.

Now in this process your opponent can LO'S as he wants since this guy is a character.

[Jestar]

And yes, this is another kick in the teeth to Tyranids. Our codex is far from flush with Durable IC's to absorb shots.

[eugee]

Bear in mind you can only LOS! if there is a model left to allocate to. You could still do wound shenanigans with a Prime & Warriors; keep the Prime in front and then LOS! wounds he sufferers onto his brood. You decide where each wound goes when you succeed on the roll. Granted if you get a 1 he takes the wound. Since the Prime & Warriors have the same saves, you save BEFORE allocating wounds, as opposed to when you have differing saves, and make your rolls AFTER allocating.

You don't have to have differing wargear for LOS! either, just a character.

Now it's even easier for a warboss to push wounds off to his pack of nobs.

But yeah, a Prime with a brood of warriors, if you took 3 unsaved wounds, that's a dead warrior, but if the prime is in front, unless you roll three 1s, you spread the damage across 2-3 models.

[coredump]

Jul 24, 2012 11:23:50 GMT Jestar said:

And yes, this is another kick in the teeth to Tyranids. Our codex is far from flush with Durable IC's to absorb shots.

Only because you have yet to consider what happens with a Prime leading a brood of 2-3 fexes.... Or the various benefits of a Prime leading a brood of warriors....

[Bot]

Jul 25, 2012 6:39:57 GMT coredump said:

Jul 24, 2012 11:23:50 GMT Jestar said:

Or the various benefits of a Prime leading a brood of warriors....

I was actually wondering... Can a Prime in a Warrior unit outflank now? I mean, now it is worded that as long as one model in the unit has outflank, the rest of the unit can outflank.

So can the prime come along or not?

[coredump]

Yes, but they could last edition too.

[Bot]

Well we had this huge discussion back then... but we never reached any final conclusion, since no one could agree. At least now it should be pretty simple and straight forward.