When Lurking, can you "charge" now?

[titanmatrix]

The entire action is called an Assault (this is evidenced by the end of the section on page 26) and the movement is considered the charge. The two are different (academically) but for this purpose, the reason Lurk wasn't errata'ed is because it still is an assault taking place in the Assault phase.
EDIT: BETTER YET. On page 20 it flat out states "this is sometimes called Launching an Assault".

[Davor]

For the people who say assault=charge, would this mean that a unit with fleet, being onslaughted can assault/charge after running then?

[liquid405]

Jul 8, 2012 15:48:18 GMT Davor said:

For the people who say assault=charge, would this mean that a unit with fleet, being onslaughted can assault/charge after running then?

Read below.

Jul 7, 2012 19:42:00 GMT coredump said:

The reason Onslaught doesn't work has nothing to do with the weak-sauce argument that Assault != Charge. It is because it never says you can. It says there is 'no way' you can without fleet. That is not the same as saying you *can* with fleet.

I tell you,
There is no way your car can go 200mph if it doesn't have tires.
Does that inherently mean that your car *can* go 200mph if it has tires?? Of course not.

If you use Onslaught, there is no way you can charge/assault without fleet.
Does that inherently mean that you can Charge if you do have fleet? Of course not.

Jul 8, 2012 4:34:20 GMT titanmatrix said:

BETTER YET. On page 20 it flat out states "this is sometimes called Launching an Assault".

Thank you for finding this! Puts a bullet in the head of all of the charge != assault cheesiness.

[Davor]

So any unit with Fleet being Onslaughted, can Run and Charge/assault now then?

[liquid405]

Jul 8, 2012 17:37:25 GMT Davor said:

So any unit with Fleet being Onslaughted, can Run and Charge/assault now then?

I suddenly get the feeling I am being trolled...

[Davor]

No I am serious. We had a debate, I thought it was proven that this can't happen. So if we are suppose to be using the same terminology from Onslaught not being used, that is why I thought you can charge when Lurking.

So if we can't assault when Lurking, does this mean Onslaughted units with Fleet can Run and Assault then. If not why not?

[liquid405]

Jul 8, 2012 17:55:47 GMT Davor said:

So if we can't assault when Lurking, does this mean Onslaughted units with Fleet can Run and Assault then. If not why not?

Because Onslaught never gives permission to fleet units to assault after running. It only takes assault away from units without fleet, even if they did not run.

[coredump]

Davor, if I take the time to write posts to answer your questions, it seems only fair that you take the time to actually read them.

No onslaught does not do that. I answer exactly why in my previous posts.

[Davor]

I must have missed it, I will double check the thread again.

*edit* Please explain it in simple terms for me please guys. I am slow and it seems dimwitted, because I reread this thread and still do not get why Onslaught will not let units with Fleet run and then be able to assault.

I am just dense today. Do this old man a favor and speak in "Tyranids for Dummies" talk please.

[Geneva]

Fleet does not allow you to run and assault in Sixth edition.

Onslaught does not allow you to run and assault in Sixth edition.

Fleet + Onslaught therefore would in no way allow you to run and assault in Sixth edition.

The "unless it has Fleet" line in Onslaught's wording was to allow exception to the 5th Ed version of the Fleet rule. Fleet has changed so that part of the Onslaught power is now irrelevant. It does not explicitly say "units with Fleet can assault after running" so it is not actually granting the unit an added ability in that respect. It merely allows Fleet to be used in conjunction with it.

[Davor]

Well please explain to me what this means then. Tyranid codex page 62, under Onslaught, "A unit may not assault unless it also has fleet ability."

So to me, since a unit has fleet, it ran, it can also assault because right there it says it can assault if it has fleet. This is overriding the BRB/BGB. Right here it is giving us permission to do something. It is saying you have fleet, you can assault after you did a run.

Yes I know, Fleet in 6th, lets you just do a re-roll on a run or charge. But Fleet also lets you assault if you are onslaughted.

It's hot, humid here, can't think clearly. But this is all I see. I am not trying to say I am right and everyone is wrong, I just want to understand. And for some reason, I am not understading what you are saying.

Genevman has explained it very well to me, and I see what you guys mean, but I don't understand why you guys are saying as what I just quoted is still not valid.

[liquid405]

Because it never gives you anything. It only takes stuff away.

[Davor]

last stupid question, but nothing is being taken away. If anything Onslaught is giving us something. Remmeber Tyranids was made with 6th edition in mind? So to me this would make perfect sense.

Thanks for being patient with me guys, it is appreciated.

[liquid405]

A unit may not assault unless it also has fleet ability.

This states that A) A unit cannot assault, ever, regardless of if it ran or not unless b) it has fleet.

It never says, you can assault even if you run. It just stipulates that you MUST have fleet to assault.

[Geneva]

Found this on a thread on Dakka Dakka which explains it better than I could.

Because of the wording. "A unit under the effect of Onslaught may not assault unless it also has the Fleet ability."

It doesn't say that's because you ran. It says that because you are under the effect of Onslaught you can't assault unless you have fleet. So if you have fleet the Onslaught restriction doesn't apply, but that's not express permission to assault no matter what.