DoM in 6e

[nalathani]

In one of the more general 6e threads someone had mentioned DoM and the fact that if you get Iron Arm, you end up with more T and eternal warrior, making him essentially unkillable.

This was countered (I think by Coredump) by the fact that you only have a 1/6 chance to get Iron Arm, and that it's not worth getting rid of Cataclysm for such a small chance of getting that power.

The more I thought about it, the more I think it is worth it. I figured I'd explain my thoughts:

1) Getting a lot out of cataclysm means not being in close combat. Not being in close combat is dangerous. The longer you're in the open, the more likely you are to be kraked/lascannon'd to death. You'll probably drop, use cata, then get into close combat. That gives you one shot with it.

2) Cataclysm has a high rate of failure. At least in the games I've played, I've failed psychic tests, got hooded/runesworded, scattered off my target, or hit all 4 terminators, but had 3 of them make their cover saves, etc.

3) Cataclysm hurts you. Nothing like losing 2 wounds and having it scatter back onto yourself. Hurray!

3 of the biomancy powers are friendly, so they can't miss, can't be hooded/Deny the witched'd. They also amplify close combat abilities, which will help the DoM in his own battles, or possibly make a nearby unit much scarier.

I think it's worth losing Cata for even a slight chance of making him a 7s/7t 3+ save eternal warrior biological nuclear weapon.

[bigpig]

Jul 5, 2012 20:19:33 GMT nalathani said:

In one of the more general 6e threads someone had mentioned DoM and the fact that if you get Iron Arm, you end up with more T and eternal warrior, making him essentially unkillable.

This was countered (I think by Coredump) by the fact that you only have a 1/6 chance to get Iron Arm, and that it's not worth getting rid of Cataclysm for such a small chance of getting that power.

The more I thought about it, the more I think it is worth it. I figured I'd explain my thoughts:

1) Getting a lot out of cataclysm means not being in close combat. Not being in close combat is dangerous. The longer you're in the open, the more likely you are to be kraked/lascannon'd to death. You'll probably drop, use cata, then get into close combat. That gives you one shot with it.

2) Cataclysm has a high rate of failure. At least in the games I've played, I've failed psychic tests, got hooded/runesworded, scattered off my target, or hit all 4 terminators, but had 3 of them make their cover saves, etc.

3) Cataclysm hurts you. Nothing like losing 2 wounds and having it scatter back onto yourself. Hurray!

3 of the biomancy powers are friendly, so they can't miss, can't be hooded/Deny the witched'd. They also amplify close combat abilities, which will help the DoM in his own battles, or possibly make a nearby unit much scarier.

I think it's worth losing Cata for even a slight chance of making him a 7s/7t 3+ save eternal warrior biological nuclear weapon.

While your points are accurate, I have to agree with CD that you cannot base a strategy on a roughly 17% chance of getting a power. That means in your typical 6 round GT you will get Iron Arm.... once. And one in twelve of the times you cast it you will fail the psychic test and be Str8 bait anyways. The rest of the time you will be getting powers that are much less effective than making your DoM an Eternal Warrior killing machine and arguably less effective than the Cataclysm power.

I believe it comes down to how each persons play style is affected by Cataclysm. If you don't find yourself using it that much because you tend to not have enough wounds, are too close to the target, or are usually stuck in CC then swap it out. Do so because the bulk of the options are useful for you rather than just one of six.

It's worth noting, btw, that Cataclysm became much better in 6th. Hoods are less likely to stop it unless near/in the target unit and cover saves are much less effective against it since it is now 5+ and can only be claimed against models actually in cover.

[reallysorry]

Two words Psychic Shriek

[Geneva]

Does Psychic Shriek count towards soaking up wounds. If it does there may be something to this.

[liquid405]

Jul 5, 2012 21:10:10 GMT Geneva said:

Does Psychic Shriek count towards soaking up wounds. If it does there may be something to this.

ALL wounds caused by DoM generate it. This spell is really good.

[reallysorry]

It's 3D6 - LD = wounds no armour and no cover saves and it's a standard psychic power you don't even need to roll to get it. No scatter no rolls to hit nothing.

And i stand corrected it absorbs life for every wound it causes so yeah it does

[coredump]

That wasn't me... but it kinda sounds like me.... :-)


You almost had me... but looking over the powers... I just don't see it. Even Iron Arm means I have to survive a turn of enemy shooting before I can use it. Granted, it makes me pretty awesome, but the rest of the powers don't strike me nearly as useful as a S8 AP1 large blast. I like killing groups of terminators....
If the other powers were almost as good as cata, then it might be worth taking the chance...

Smite: Probably kill one guy
enfeeble: slightly weakens a unit... meh...
Endurance: In general not worried about small arms, it is ID I am worried about
Leech: Probably kill on guy (wonder if that gives DoM two lives back total...)
Warp speed: Could be okay, lets DoM be somewhat effective in CC, unless there is a Pfist around.
Haem: maybe kills one guy.

Assuming I can get each one of these over the course of 6 games... I would rather have cata for those 6 games.

[Inquisitor Stingray]

Of all the units in our codex, I am surprised to see that the Doom didn't get nerfed. Though there is still plenty of time for that, hm.

[Davor]

So can DoM Spirit Leech rule effect units in vehicles now? Lets forget the FAQ for a moment. What do the rules in 6th edition say? Are units safe again in vehicles?

[kurbutti]

Davor, AFAIK no.

Doom is very unreliable unit as it is. I wouldn't use it in any of my more "serious" games anyway. I've tried trolling around with Doom and it really is ridiculous when it works. Like said though, no sense building a list around this.

That aside, I like triple casting Enfeeble to Dark Eldar. Or just Enfeeble + Haemorrhage and watch them turn to puss.

[Illithid]

Actually, if playing 6 games, you only have a 0.21% chance of getting one 6 in all those games and receiving Iron Arm - need to do the following sum =100/(6^6) - I do not like those odds at a tournament of 6 games.

[Deleted]

Hello men, I'm sorry for butting in, but need to ask. We cannot overwatch psychic powers correct? orrr can weeee>?

[sturm]

I don't see how that would be possible. Did you mean deny the witch?

[Deleted]

Deny the witch is different. I was just curious as to whether my zoeys could use thier warp lance if they get charged. But am guessing not.

edit: Provided they didnt use a psychic power in the shooting phase, so they still have thier warp charge.

The reason they wouldn't shoot is irrelevant to what I'm asking - incase anyone asks "why wouldn't you shoot to avoid it being a snapshot".

[sturm]

Jul 6, 2012 3:55:16 GMT @zackman55 said:

Deny the witch is different. I was just curious as to whether my zoeys could use thier warp lance if they get charged. But am guessing not.

edit: Provided they didnt use a psychic power in the shooting phase, so they still have thier warp charge.

The reason they wouldn't shoot is irrelevant to what I'm asking - incase anyone asks "why wouldn't you shoot to avoid it being a snapshot".

I see. Sorry i misunderstood what you meant.

It is a good question, though iirc, you can't snap shot a psychic attack, right? I think the overwatch description covers shooting only and not psychic shooting.