Mawloc VS Flyers

[rehkal]

Having had a chance to actually read the full instructions for flyers. I have to say that the mawloc can most definitely NOT use terror to hit flyers. The reason is simple. Terror is a ground attack, that it can only affect models on the base floor of building establishes that fact.

Flyers are not at ground level. This is supported by the paragraph on page 80 "flyers and other models"
Models that physically fit under a flyer model can move beneath it. The flyer can even end its movement OVER such models. The 1" rule to enemy models still applies though, no enemy models may be within 1" from the base of the flyer. Also if you read on the next page under assaulting flyers, it's presumed zooming flyers are at high altitudes.

On page 80 under flyers and measuring it states that for measuring purposes you IGNORE the base of the flyer. All measurements are from the hull except for in the case of assaulting, embarking/disembarking.
I mention the measurements simply because the blast marker is a form of measuring to see what is in range of the blast effect of terror (or any other blast weapon).

Regardless of how the official FAQ comes out though, I don't think terror should be able to hit flyers. Mostly because it is a ground attack and flyers... well... Fly.

[Davor]

Sadly GW rules the way they are written, doesn't matter how things should be. Yes it will be favored in the SM favor, just like how SL was favored for the SM.

BUT until now, we have to go by the way it's written. Is that right? So manythings in 6th edition is not right, espically with allies. So if BT can ally up with witches, then anything is possible.

[sac_ld]

Jul 8, 2012 23:12:00 GMT rehkal said:

Terror is a ground attack, that it can only affect models on the base floor of building establishes that fact.

Where does it say that in the codex or FAQ?

[bigpig]

Jul 8, 2012 21:59:36 GMT tanagra said:

Jul 7, 2012 20:22:47 GMT bigpig said:

For what its worth, the Golden Throne GT has for their FAQ that the TftD CAN affect flyers as it is a special ability, not a shooting attack.

Link it please. I want to see what else they've ruled on

www.facebook.com/#!/groups/482613561765904/

Its on their Facebook group at the moment. Looks like they are gathering them all up there and then will post a combined one on their full website. Third one down on their questions thread (second post at time of linking this)

[rehkal]

Jul 9, 2012 0:16:26 GMT sac_ld said:

Jul 8, 2012 23:12:00 GMT rehkal said:

Terror is a ground attack, that it can only affect models on the base floor of building establishes that fact.

Where does it say that in the codex or FAQ?

Deepstriking, Page 36.
Units deepstriking into ruins are placed on the ground floor. Even then it is treated as dangerous terrain. Intact building are treated as impassible.

Mawloc appears from the ground (duh), he isn't going to jump thousands of feet up to hit a zooming flyer. (or even hundreds of feet up). Hovering fliers I can see him hitting as they are treated like skimmers, but not zooming.

[sac_ld]

Jul 9, 2012 2:26:48 GMT rehkal said:

Jul 9, 2012 0:16:26 GMT sac_ld said:

Where does it say that in the codex or FAQ?

Deepstriking, Page 36.
Units deepstriking into ruins are placed on the ground floor. Even then it is treated as dangerous terrain. Intact building are treated as impassible.

Mawloc appears from the ground (duh), he isn't going to jump thousands of feet up to hit a zooming flyer. (or even hundreds of feet up). Hovering fliers I can see him hitting as they are treated like skimmers, but not zooming.

Where the Mawloc is placed and how a special rule attack is completed are not the same thing. Also the Mawloc sends shrapnel flying out from the ground, that would be the cause of the damage to a flyer.

[rehkal]

Shrapnel? Lol. Funny, I see no mention of that in the entry for terror. Are you sure you didn't make that up?

[sac_ld]

Jul 9, 2012 4:10:53 GMT rehkal said:

Shrapnel? Lol. Funny, I see no mention of that in the entry for terror. Are you sure you didn't make that up?

I will admit that I speculated that there would be shrapnel when a large creature burst out of the ground. But since there is no fluff description of what the attack does I made reference to the image of the Mawloc which is bursting out of the ground sending rock and people flying.

My point is the rule currently says anything under a large blast marker is automatically hit with a S6 AP2 hit. If this was to resolve in a ruin it does not say "ground floor only" so everyone in the building would be hit, models on the upper floors would get there cover saves from the floor they are standing on. If there is a flyer under the marker it would also be hit due to it not being a shooting attack. This is obviously something that shouldn't really be happening but until they address it that is the unfortunate fate of the flyer. A flyer can still Jink to gain a cover save (where if you were to use your imagination, the flyer would be darting around trying to avoid all the debris that was just thrown into the air).

[ziggythetrygon]

If this is true, I am most certainly replacing one of my trygons with a Mawloc just in case I ever actually get to use this.

[rehkal]

No, no. The deep strikes rules specifically state deep strikers arrive ground floor in ruins and blast markers only affect the floor they are placed on in ruins. Therefore your terror attack only hits the base floor in a ruin, it's been ruled that way the entire time the ability has existed.

Ultimately I don't really care either way it's ruled, I'm just pointing out my interpretation of the rules now that I've gotten a chance to actually read them. (stupid preordered books took forever to arrive) I still don't see anything RAW that makes it so the terror ability hits fliers.

[sac_ld]

Jul 9, 2012 16:11:27 GMT rehkal said:

No, no. The deep strikes rules specifically state deep strikers arrive ground floor in ruins

The Mawloc can indeed only be placed on the ground floor, that has never been an issue.

Jul 9, 2012 16:11:27 GMT rehkal said:

blast markers only affect the floor they are placed on in ruins.

blast markers from weapons do this, this is true. The Mawloc Terror from the Deep special rule is not a shooting attack, it's not a weapon, it's a oddity that states anything found under the marker is just auto hit. it does not seem to care how far up you are in any defining context of it's rule or the FAQ. and since the rules for flyers say you can't be within 1" of an enemy model TftD would have to move it out of the way. If it's moving it out of the way then it's going to have to hit it in order to do so.

I'm just saying till they clear this up, flyers are hit by this rule even though normally blasts should not be able to hit it because you can't snap fire them, but this is not a shot and it's not a weapon.