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Post by gloomfang on Jul 2, 2012 17:23:09 GMT
OK. Looking over the rules and realized a few things that might make Old One Eye on of the most broken Nids ever?
Ok. OOE is a monsterous creature. He gets Hammer of Wrath. Hammer of Wrath autohits every unit on the charge it is in BtB contact with at I10.
However OOE has a rule that says the more he hits the more attacks he gets. I charge him into a squad and get base contact with 3 models I get 3 autohits. So you get an additional 3 attacks, not sure if they go off at I10 or I1 becasue it says you may immediately make the extra attacks.
But even without that on the charge he gets 5+d3 Attacks. Plus his HoW hits. He used to be able to get massive amounts of hits, but now it looks like he can litteraly go off the chart.
However he has IB-Feed. So maybe more attacks there.
And thats without giving him other buffs like prefered enemy. Might need to go pick one up to try him out.
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Post by swarm492 on Jul 2, 2012 17:30:40 GMT
Just checked my dex and it says for every successful roll to hit OOE makes in close combat he gets another attack. I'm going to go with no because there is no roll to hit needed for hammer of wrath.
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Post by gloomfang on Jul 2, 2012 17:38:44 GMT
Just checked my dex and it says for every successful roll to hit OOE makes in close combat he gets another attack. I'm going to go with no because there is no roll to hit needed for hammer of wrath. Ok I might need to to check the rule book when I get home on the wording of HoW and how to hit rolls are done. I thought they were to hit rolls that automaticly succeded for HoW. Hate rules lawering, but it could make OOE a lot more usefull. Especally with the cover changes. |
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Post by fnorrll on Jul 2, 2012 17:51:10 GMT
I feel you are stretching it here. Whilst possibly it could be argued, depending on the exact wording which i havnt checked, i'd feel bad trying to do so.
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Post by Inquisitor Stingray on Jul 2, 2012 17:55:04 GMT
I was under the impression that the number of HoW attacks is equal to the models charging and reaching base contact with one or more enemy model. I could be wrong, though, if your interpretation is correct, the Trygon, with its humongous base, should be able to dish out a bunch of free hits.
The Old One Eye is however still a shadow of his former self. I litterally facepalmed when I realised that Cruddace had more or less taken 3rd Edition OOE's rules and given them to Commisar Yarrick. Very nice, Cruddace, very subtle. An Armor Save of 2+ as well as the Beserk Rampage working like Blood Talons and everything would be forgiven. Until then, the OOE won't see any use in my list. I like his fluff, though.
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Post by carnogaunt on Jul 2, 2012 18:02:22 GMT
Hammer of Wrath only gives one extra hit regardless of how many models you end up in base contact with.*
Besides, when you charge, you move the "initial charger" into base contact with the nearest enemy model using the "shortest route possible," meaning that after Old One Eye charges, he'll only be in base contact with one enemy model until pile-in moves are made. (He still can't be joined by an Independent Character, so he will always be the initial charger.)
* Edit- Let me clarify this: Every model in a charging unit that ends its charge in base contact with one or more enemy models gets one Hammer of Wrath attack. Stingray is correct.
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Post by gloomfang on Jul 2, 2012 18:08:15 GMT
Hammer of Wrath only gives one extra hit regardless of how many models you end up in base contact with.* * Edit- Let me clarify this: Every model in a charging unit that ends its charge in base contact with one or more enemy models gets one Hammer of Wrath attack. OK, so at best he gets one free attack. Not so OP (if he even gets it if the codex says to hit roll). I will have to tell me friends that were playing last night they got HoW wrong. So many new rules. I guess they were thinking of chariots or something. |
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Post by coredump on Jul 2, 2012 20:23:18 GMT
Carnogaunt hit all the main points. So we are down to a single HoW attack for OOE. But I do believe his special rule would kick in, and he would get a second attack. I would say the second one does not autohit.
Remember, the HoW attack is AP-, so it isn't nearly as deadly as his normal attacks.
OTOH, I am leaning that the 'extra' attack needs to roll to hit, and would be at AP2.
I am not sure how many other folks will play it this way... but for 260pts, I don't think that reading is way off base.
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Post by gloomfang on Jul 2, 2012 21:00:13 GMT
Carnogaunt hit all the main points. So we are down to a single HoW attack for OOE. But I do believe his special rule would kick in, and he would get a second attack. I would say the second one does not autohit. Remember, the HoW attack is AP-, so it isn't nearly as deadly as his normal attacks. OTOH, I am leaning that the 'extra' attack needs to roll to hit, and would be at AP2. I am not sure how many other folks will play it this way... but for 260pts, I don't think that reading is way off base. The big question is wiether the second attack would go off at I10 or I1, not if you would need to roll to hit. And OOE can still get nasty with his S10 AP2 hits. He could rip a landraider in half with ease. |
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Post by liquid405 on Jul 3, 2012 0:58:44 GMT
So can a Trygon with Smash. S10, 4 attacks on the charge, rerolls misses, rerolls pens. 60 points cheaper, has a decent gun, has fleet to reroll charge distances, and has 2 additional wounds.
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Post by killme304 on Jul 3, 2012 1:03:04 GMT
Id say no the the HoW generating extra hits on the grounds of: "For every successful To Hit roll...." (pg 57 Tyranid Codex) You didn't have a successful To Hit roll, you just got to hit automatically without a roll. GW overcosts things all the time (look at the Pyrovore or Carnifexen...) So can a Trygon with Smash. S10, 4 attacks on the charge, rerolls misses, rerolls pens. 60 points cheaper, has a decent gun, has fleet to reroll charge distances, and has 2 additional wounds. OOE gets 5 + d3 attacks (he has Crushing Claws, and is on the charge). Hes still over-costed as hell, but he does have that perk at least. |
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Post by Inquisitor Stingray on Jul 3, 2012 1:16:05 GMT
So can a Trygon with Smash. S10, 4 attacks on the charge, rerolls misses, rerolls pens. 60 points cheaper, has a decent gun, has fleet to reroll charge distances, and has 2 additional wounds. Pretty much this. I'm not particularly happy about the OOE model either, but I guess you could make some interesting campaign scenarios with him. 1st Battle: First Contact. Loads of Gargoyles, Genestealers, Harpies and Flyrants. 2nd Battle: Endless Swarm. Loads of Gaunts, Warriors, perhaps the Swarmlord thrown in for good measure. 3rd Battle: Monstrous Assault. Monsters everywhere, be they Tervigons, Trygons, Mawlocs, Tyrannofexen or Carnifexen. 4th Battle: Biomass Denial. Loads and loads of Rippers, the Parasite of Mortrex, Raveners and so on. Should be met with equal amount of template weapons, illustrating the defenders' desperate attempt to deny the Tyranids the spoils of war. 5th Battle: Post Exterminatus. Upon trying to recolonize the planet, the opponent sends out a small force of Deathkorps/Tactical Squads, perhaps led by a Ordo Xeno Inquisitor (Magos Biologis). No Synapse units may be taken, instead the Tyranid player relies entirely of the unpredictable leadership of Old One Eye who, like a bunch of Raveners, Hormagaunts, Rippers and other Carnifexes, has survived Exterminatus by hibernating under ground (speculated in 4th Edition). Still, if only he had Blood Talons and perhaps a 2+ Save, he would be so much more tempting to take. |
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Post by liquid405 on Jul 3, 2012 1:16:36 GMT
So can a Trygon with Smash. S10, 4 attacks on the charge, rerolls misses, rerolls pens. 60 points cheaper, has a decent gun, has fleet to reroll charge distances, and has 2 additional wounds. OOE gets 5 + d3 attacks (he has Crushing Claws, and is on the charge). Hes still over-costed as hell, but he does have that perk at least. If he does that, he cant reroll hits, or reroll pens. He does an average of 3.8 hullpoints of damage. A Trygon does 2.66. Plus he gets murdered by missiles long before he gets anywhere threatening. |
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Post by swarm492 on Jul 3, 2012 2:02:14 GMT
I remember taking him every game 1500 or less in third, the way he is now is like having a old friend that has changed over the years and isnt your friend anymore.  I just want my buddy back, damn you gw for taking him away from me. |
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Post by killme304 on Jul 3, 2012 2:41:57 GMT
OOE gets 5 + d3 attacks (he has Crushing Claws, and is on the charge). Hes still over-costed as hell, but he does have that perk at least. If he does that, he cant reroll hits, or reroll pens. He does an average of 3.8 hullpoints of damage. A Trygon does 2.66. Plus he gets murdered by missiles long before he gets anywhere threatening. I said he was over-costed as hell  |
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I just want my buddy back, damn you gw for taking him away from me.