Outflanking and chargeing

[vecuu]

This is pretty upsetting. For a while people will still clump up in the center against Stealers, but it will only take a game or two for each opponent to realize that he can just play to one side and safely shoot any Stealers that appear there, while Stealers who appear on the other side have 5' to run.

In 5th I liked to run two 8man broods of Toxistealers specifically to control my opponent's deployment.

Disappointing.

[liquid405]

Glad I never used geanstealers. Walking a unit of Warriors with a prime on is still going to be really good.

[sporesprayer]

ymgarls solve all this, also fyi terrain is placed until both players are satisfied ((so alt terrain deploy, roll and then ymgarls have plenty to come out of (3/4 of a pool table was ~6 2'x2' sections: each gets 1d3 terrain))

(sorry im pretty hammered now so I quit reading by like the 8th post... I saw yall mention them, Im just seconding )

Ymgarls, can move and assault normally special rule
by the end of 5th edition I was fielding units of 8 genestealers (that is the box size lol) they would outflank and then charge at whatever they rolled

but now 5 ymgarls can get (+1 attacks morph) so 2 attacks frm stats, +1 charge, +1 morph = 20 attacks on the charge so you lose a like one stealers worth of attacks and pay him in points

8 genestealers 2 attacks, +1 =24 attacks add the points up and youll see the 5 ymgarls are cheaper and about as effective (whos genestealers live through the 3rd turn of being on the board lol)

but! the ymgarls get to spawn from a terrain piece, which has to be deployed away from a board edge so your closer to stuff you need to get at with them (I like to deploy seemingly helpful terrain peices "yeah this hill lets you see into the hedge my gaunts hide in" : opponents will let you deploy more helpful terrain for you and if you balance it with things for them)

even if you cant set up pieces that draw opponents shooty units in, you can just put things that can fit the squads for deployment req

if you cant bring the ymgarls because your elites are used your gonna need to take a 2nd look at your elites or perhaps bring a prime with no upgrades (drawing shots/ extra synapse?)

the downside is they cant score and... i guess opponents will eventually learn that ymgarls can get blocked (I havent mentioned it to mine and it hasnt happened yet so... muhahaha) ((i try and not cheat so when it does ill be a sad genestealer))


so yeah to sum up

Ymgarls:
Pro:
one of the few units that can arrive, move, and charge (all other outflankers/inf got nerfed harder)
picks xtra A, S, or T
mind games w/ opponents
almost the same price (get your codex 8 genestealers=24 attacks: 6 ymgarls= 24 attacks)

cons:
little more expensive
still can be flamered
might be avoided (if lots of terrain or luck opponent)
no broodlord

[eeknight]

I'm wondering if we need a special thread for using genestealers in 6th.

I think they're still viable, especially when you factor in the broodlord and how hard they can hit. As infiltrators, you can still use them to grab an objective (or critical ground near an objective). Okay, they're not as flexible as tactical marines, but even with toxin sacs they're an equivalent cost to a tac squad and way more deadly in cc. As infiltrators they'll absorb a lot of attention and firepower from whoever can see them, attention and firepower that isn't being used on other elements of your army, and they still have a decent threat radius so they'll be closing down a big section of board or at least forcing your opponent to think twice about coming within 13-18" -- think of how easily vehicles die now.

Let's say you decide to Outflank. He's got some super-long-range stuff parked in a corner. You get lucky with outflank and can show up where you want (remember, if he's in the corner you get two shots at getting him with your board edge roll). He'd better have some decent infantry guarding his big gun on both sides, or you can snuggle up next to him and no template weapons. Hopefully careful positioning will minimize that infantry fire - why not run to optimize, since you can't assault anyway. Next turn he either guns his vehicle to get the heck out of the way or otherwise has to deal with you, pulling resources away from whatever else he's trying to do.

Okay, you outflank and (please do not swear) out on the arrival roll. With the amount of terrain now being placed on board (D3 per 2x2 board square) there aren't going to be a lot of great shooting alleys, and hopefully by turn 2 or 3 your opponent will have other worries than a squad that can't shoot or charge this turn. You grab terrain or block los and hunker down as best as you can and move toward an objective or otherwise support your victory conditions. Again, he's got trouble in his backfield capable of killing anything but a landraider-equivalent or zooming flyer that he has to deal with.

Genestealers add a lot of flexibility and terror for their point cost. They don't eat elite slots, but if you can get into cc they're as good as any elite in the game. They're still viable.

(Of course, I'm a guy who uses warriors almost every game and is almost always happy with their performance, so grain of salt when it comes to my opinions)

[fleetofclaw]

Jul 1, 2012 14:35:01 GMT voidwraith said:

Did people really leave their units 12-18" away from the board edges when you were outflanking genestealers? Peeps I played against quit doing that after one dose of outflanked death...

Does the rule change suck? Yes. Will it really amount to a change to actual gameplay? Probably not...

Yes it will, the reason why players stayed away from the edges was to avoid outflanking Stealer assault. Now players will no longer feel the need to bottle up their forces, sit shooty units on their flanks, call it good. It's not the end of the world but it will make a change.

EDIT: I presume the change was made so that at 2000 points, armies weren't getting eaten alive by 12 broods of genestealers in that short table edges deployment option.