Dont Let WH40k DIE!!@#!@#!@#!

[blur]

I heard Warhammer 40k was dying . This is wrong!

This forum has thousands on it, and the same with all the other Warhammer 40k forums. Also, when people do stop, friends and siblings can be intrested and take their army or start their own. I have 3 friends who want to play after watching me play.Comment on your opinion below.

But wait theres more! lol. There is not a lot of people playing... Warmachines is catching up, and most comic stores only have like 15 people playing at the most...

[Dro]

Take a look at how much money GW makes and tell me their dying.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

[jocke01]

Warhammer dying?. What planet are you living on?

[Nightstalker]

Jun 9, 2012 23:08:58 GMT jocke01 said:

Warhammer dying?. What planet are you living on?

One thats being overrun by nids

[Overread]

The only places where 40K is dieing is on competitor brand product forums. Often you'll find that those trumpeting that GW is dieing strongest are those who:

1) Have already invested £1000s into GW and just don't see the need to buy new stuff

2) Those who haven't got the budget for GW ranges and prefer games that have a much cheaper start up option (though long term they might sink as much into them as into any GW army; but short term they can more easily build up a usable army).

In general many shout that GW is pricing itself out of its market; but to be honest I can't ever remember a time when GW wasn't considered a very expensive hobby. It's always been that way and a great part isn't model prices, its the fact that instead of 10-20 models per army its 50-100 for an army. GW armies are bigger - the games are bigger scaled so the associated costs rise up. For many this is too much and its a great reason why we've seen companies like Privateer Press, Maliflux, Spartan - charge into the lower price bracket of the market. Though each of those titles can easily cost as much as a few thousand points in a GW army - they are each under £100 to start up fully - with several able to start up for under £50.

Warhammer is indeed dead if you're more limited on budget - GW don't mind that, you're simply not their target market.

[vecuu]

I agree with overmind wholeheartedly. I've been spending a lot of time at my LGS the past few months and have seen many different players start up Warmahordes, myself included (although, I haven't really done much since I bought that starter set...).

Compared to 40k, a lot of the other wargames seem more fleeting. I find myself talking to people who have played 40k since Space Hulk and still have every model they've ever bought. 40k isn't dying, it just has a different marketability compared to other wargames.

[Davor]

Jun 9, 2012 23:05:41 GMT Dro said:

Take a look at how much money GW makes and tell me their dying.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

When we are paying $50 for something that costs 50 cents to make, I can't see GW dying. Molds are all paid for, they increase the prices, and they still keep surviving.

No GW is not dying.

[Overread]

Just another point to add - but many of these smaller games are also ideal for those who have a larger budget, but want diversity - either as a whole or within a games range. It's hard to build a collection of several large GW armies simply because of costs and building/painting time to get them all up to the count.
It can be much easier to build several Hords or Warmachine armies or heck run them alongside a Maliflux crew because you can break up your budget of time and money between the armies more easily.

Also remember - whilst we talk about startup costs, lets not forget no matter which you go for paints, clippers, files etc... these will all add up to a very similar cost (if you go for a similar level of finish and detail). So that is a hard cost you can't get around.

[Overread]

Jun 10, 2012 0:13:44 GMT Davor said:

When we are paying $50 for something that costs 50 cents to make, I can't see GW dying. Molds are all paid for, they increase the prices, and they still keep surviving.

No GW is not dying.

Whilst I know that hte values you state are rough, I think its important to realise that a model isn't just the sum value of the raw materials its comprised of.
For a finished model that you see on the table the company has to go through (and pay!) for a whole range of services including;
army/model design
Concept art
concept sculpt
test moulds
finished moulds
painting (yes eveymetal qualty models are not free)
product photographs
packaging design
shipping
production (yes we've made the moulds, but someone still has to manually run the machines)
future investments (yep not only has a model's life span got to pay for the investment made into it, but its also got to help pay for the next models)
staff and working fees (support, building rental, lighting, water, heating etc..)
profit

So whilst the raw materials might be pretty cheap, the associated costs that add together to give us our final model can be fairly steep. Yes most of those costs are going to be spread out over the models whole life span, but its still got to deliver upon them. The actual profit per model I, expect, is actually fairly small.

[fragile]

The actual profit per model I, expect, is actually fairly small.

Its roughly half of final price. Many of the costs you mention GW takes care of in house. So you can eliminate concept art, painting, photos, sculpting, etc. Those are simply staff on payroll. If you check out the front or back of the rulebook, they usually list all those involved in each area of the business.

Once you have the design, sculpt, and molds done, they only continuing cost would be the production costs which are probably fairly minimal.

[Davor]

Jun 10, 2012 0:22:11 GMT Overread said:

Jun 10, 2012 0:13:44 GMT Davor said:

When we are paying $50 for something that costs 50 cents to make, I can't see GW dying. Molds are all paid for, they increase the prices, and they still keep surviving.

No GW is not dying.

Whilst I know that hte values you state are rough, I think its important to realise that a model isn't just the sum value of the raw materials its comprised of.
For a finished model that you see on the table the company has to go through (and pay!) for a whole range of services including;
army/model design
Concept art
concept sculpt
test moulds
finished moulds
painting (yes eveymetal qualty models are not free)
product photographs
packaging design
shipping
production (yes we've made the moulds, but someone still has to manually run the machines)
future investments (yep not only has a model's life span got to pay for the investment made into it, but its also got to help pay for the next models)
staff and working fees (support, building rental, lighting, water, heating etc..)
profit

So whilst the raw materials might be pretty cheap, the associated costs that add together to give us our final model can be fairly steep. Yes most of those costs are going to be spread out over the models whole life span, but its still got to deliver upon them. The actual profit per model I, expect, is actually fairly small.

So if we go by this logic, we should be paying what 1/2 million for a $15 000 car then? How come other companies have to soak up all the start up costs and labour etc etc, but GW doesn't? Sorry that is part of doing buisness but sometimes GW seems to blame us for it. I had to stop a few GW employees from going off the "book" they are seemed to be given on how to talk to us and tell us.

Remember some of these molds were made over 10 years ago, so "paid in full" as GW would say, but they still raise the prices instead of lowering them? Like come on. LOL

[WestRider]

Note also that a lot of discussion is shifting to other Games for the moment because we know that 6th is on the way, but have nothing solid enough to really discuss about it.

Deep discussions of 5th Ed tactics feel a little pointless when they've only got a couple more Months worth of use, so many people are talking about Warmahordes or whatever for the moment. I know that Kirby has said as much explicitly over at 3++, and I feel much the same myself. I've got 5 Games at the OFCC and maybe 3-4 more with my local opponent before 6th Ed hits. So I'm getting more into WM right now, working more on my Khador than putting 40K stuff together, thinking about that more, because I know that the effort I put into that will remain useful past the next few Weeks.

I'd expect interest in 40K on the Internet and elsewhere to pick back up big time once 6th Ed actually drops. Assuming it doesn't suck, of course

[Space is pretty big]

Jun 9, 2012 23:05:41 GMT Dro said:

Take a look at how much money GW makes and tell me their dying.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

They're dying.

GW has made some decent money recently, but that's mostly due to price increases and recent releases.

Their consumer base has actually contracted, which meant had they maintained their past prices, they would be showing significantly less profit.

Problem is this isn't a sustainable business model. Eventually prices reach a head where charging more exponentially leads to less buyers.

It also leaves them vulnerable if another company decides to break their monopoly, as they can easily be under cut.

If privateer press designs a game with the same flexibility and size as 40k, with their much improved rulesets and lower prices, they'll soar in profits; and GW will shrink.

I don't see PP doing such, it's not the tone of that company, but you never know when another replacement will come around...

[Deathnid]

Die... ing
come on, of course GW is going down the crapper, but its happening very slowly. How is it possibly going to die?
so many people play and if anyone stops playing because of the price than a whole lot of people will stop playing. what then? GW shuts down? of course not. they lower the prices wich drags more people in. and when they get more people playing again there is a lot more people spending money... they put the prices up again. its a never-ending loop of stupid.

[malebranche]

Worst case scenario, they go bankrupt and get bought out by someone with business sense. No way they will go out of business, its a massively popular company with a huge following.