Lizzies for a 1500pts tourni to critic

[happybean]

Hi, there fellow lizzie and tyranid player!
I was wondering if you could critic this list for a future tournament of mine.
I think it is a pretty well balanced army, maybe lacking the usual lizzie magic dominance at this point level, but perhaps compensated by the fast punchy high strengths units in the list.
I don’t know who I will face, maybe some dark elves, but doesn’t really matter it’s a 24.competitors thing .
I usually participate in 40k tournaments in my area, but I was told I was more proficient in warhammer battle (What the hell is that supposed to mean, I’ve just beaten the (please do not swear) out of you).
I did a test run with this list against the new High elves.
My opponent went heavy on magic, off course, but I managed a solid victory, even though he was blasting my units to pieces during the first two turns (they’re new “striking first” special is useless against lizzies has we already strike last!).
Here goes the list:

Scar-veteran 91 pts:
- Heavy weapon
- Light armour

Scar-veteran 91 pts:
- Heavy weapon
- Light armour

Skink chief 109 pts:
- Hand weapon
- Shield
- Light armour
- 2 dispel scrolls

15 saurus warriors 210 pts:
- Hand weapons
- Shields
- Full command

15 saurus warriors 240 pts:
- Hand weapons
- Spears
- Shields
- Full command

10 Skinks 60 pts:
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Shields

3 Kroxigors 174 pts:
- Great weapons

3 Kroxigors 174 pts:
- Great weapons

3 Terradons 105 pts:
- Hand weapons
- Javelins

1 Stegadon 235 pts:
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Giant bow

For a total of 1489 pts.

What do you think?
Nasty enough?
What should I spend those 11 pts on?
- Put an extra skink and upgrade it to a brave?
- Put a brave in the terradon unit?
- Or anything else in mind?

[elysian]

Not enough magic for my taste, but on a side note Stegadons and Terradons are some of my favorite models in any game

[happybean]

Well, yeah but any lizzie army under 2000 pts isn't going to be very effective in magic without the big frog.
Yes, terradons are very usefull and the steg has is too. I hate pinning them though.
Any solutions for my magic?
When i get in contact, my martial prowess usualy makes up for the magic

[elysian]

I have always been a fan of skink spamming. With good rolls you can get some nice spells. If you ever go against a High Elf or something you will need the dispell dice, atleast. On my first game with lizardmen (using a friends models) I dropped 3 comets in one turn demolishing a lord + 4 units of Bretonnian knights.

That was years ago though... You make me want to play fantasy now, heh.

[happybean]

Sounds like an epicle battle!
Yes, but the skink mage is overvalued (quit rare in this edition)and is but an expensive squishie alternative.
what do you equip him with?
I see you like rats...

[elysian]

Trying to go off what I remember... It's been atleast 2 years since I have played Fantasy.

If i remember right you could take like 3-4 skink priests back in the day. I normally just took them vanilla or just with the lvl 2 wizzy + scout. You can mount him on a steggy but i'm pretty sure you would have to drop the bolt thrower.

They are weak as heck with 2 toughness so you will ABSOLUTELY need to cover him behind something. You could give them the Old Ones thing (reroll d3 d6s) if you could spare the points but it is MUCH better taken on a Scar or Oldblood. Also Dispell scrolls are always welcome.

Since they use Lore of the Heavens you have a good chance of getting something worthwhile. I almost always took max amount I could... They are really that versatile. You could always drop some Kroxigors since they always seem to drop fast when I played them. Skinks > Kroxigors.. Great weapons on a VERY expensive model isn't all its cracked up to be. Striking last against something even as basic as swordsmen you can lose alot of points fast. Plus all skins get poison ranged attacks. Since your big guns move like Dwarves something that can flank will always be worth it's weight in gold.

Just my 2c

EDIT: Comets can be cast without line of sight right?
EDIT-EDIT: Sorry for the strange rant thing.. It is a forum after all.

[happybean]

3 skinks under 2000. You give up the giant bow and all the crew, when you mount one them on a steg. Mark of the Old Ones is a heck of a load of point waste on a T2.
Krox move 6", what dwarves are you on about? And they are good flanking units especially with aquatic features on the board.
Comets don't need a line of sight and you nominate a point anywhere on the board.
Yes, Lore of the Heavens is great i use it with my slaan.
Interesting, ideas, i'll have to give it a thought.
What is most effective unit against skavens? I'm interested, i personaly think 3 salamander hunting packs.

[elysian]

Everything is good against skaven, heh. Just watch out when getting your expensive units near a Warp gun thingy and Jezzeals (sp?) beacuse they will kill hundreds of clanrats to take out a steggy, and those guns can and will remove anything off the board in a hurry. Also watch out for the chain gun-a-majiggy hidden in a unit.. Those do more damage than the actual combat.

Saurus move 4 which is the same as dorfs, right? Didn't mean Krox.. Sorry I know I rant alot making it hard to distinguish what I am saying sometimes. Which is why I do alot of small paragraphs, the 'Great Wall O' Text' is painful to read.

Salamanders are GREAT on paper... Not so much on the board. I am sure people out there have better luck at them than me though, could be worth a try. You could try a Carnisaur (sp?) against skaven.. Although they really are the only army with a good chance to drop a carni from far away.

[happybean]

Dwarves move 3" and flee/pursue -1.
You know how people hate ratling guns, well, salamanders are even better, they are the ultimate anti-skaven flanker units. Bye, Bye, gutter runners, and the other lot.
Jezzails take anything out reliably? No, seriously you would need 8 to 10 man unit to achieve anything with them, because of low BS, And thats a big chunck of points for a horde army, where you need to outnumber your enemi 1 to 2 (unit wise), if you want to have any chance winning a game.
I do like carnies, i sometime field one, when my friends start, complaining about to having to field three mages to not be completly outclass in magic with my slaan

[waЯu]

• The optimal unit size for Saurus in my experience tends to be at 18, with 3 ranks of 6. You'll want a wider frontage because Saurus win combats with wounds. 7 makes your wheeling far too expensive to be able to charge anything that decides it would rather not run headlong into your wall of S4 basic warriors- which is everyone with an IQ above the alcoholic content tree bark. And a unit of 3 Terradons is far too fragile.
  
• Dispel Scrolls can only be taken by wizards, so your Chief is illegal. I'd recommend replacing it with a naked lvl 1 priest with a pair of scroll and just hiding it in a wood/marsh/behind a hill.
  
• You have no magic or magic weapons, someone throws spirit hosts or a Black Coach into the mix and it's "Thanks for playing", which will be likely considering the timely revamping of Counts. Either chuck in some Salamanders (They are awesome, I try to take 6 packs in 2k. Eat my 6 Artillery dice worth of auto-hit magical attacks) or find a way to fit a magical weapon onto a Scar-vet. Scimitar of the Sun Resplendent is by in far my favorite Lizard weapon- I'd put it on a Scar-Vet and equip the other with some kind of ward and a Jaguar Totem and then go play "smashy smashy".
  
• I don't see a need for two units of Krox and a Stegadon, I'd drop down to one unit of Krox and maybe beef it up to 4: Spend the points getting the Saurus to 18-man and taking the spears off that second unit and maybe even cutting out the musicians, tarting up the Scar-Vets and adding more Skinks. Skinks are love...
  

Maybe something more...


Scar-veteran 143 pts:
- Great Weapon
- Light armour
-Shield
-Charm of the Jaguar Warrior
-Glyph Necklace

Scar-veteran 139 pts:
- Scimitar of the Sun Resplendent
- Light armour
- Shield

Skink Priest 105 pts:
- 2 dispel scrolls

18 saurus warriors 240 pts:
- Hand weapons
- Shields
- Standard & Spawning Champion

17 saurus warriors (Scimitar Scar-Vet in here) 228 pts:
- Hand weapons
- Shields
- Standard & Spawning Champion

14 Skinks 84 pts:
- Javelins
- Shields

14 Skinks 84 pts:
- Javelins
- Shields

10 skinks 70pts
-Blowpipes
-Hand Weapons
Scouts

3 Kroxigors 174 pts:
- Great weapons

1 Stegadon 235 pts:
- Hand weapons
- Javelins
- Giant bow

1492

I haven't used my lizards in a while though, feel free to disregard it or court my mother.

[happybean]

An other Lizzie on this forum, interesting...
Hum, court your mother. Are you willing to present her to me. How old is she?
Well, i think were burning some stages here. You hardly know me really, haha.
Again, hum, forgot about chief and scrolls you know i didn't have my book with me and the list, the numbers and calculation i made was all done by heart.
Who said 18 was optimal. I generaly stick my scars with the saurus to ad a little more punch. Saurus are quite good but the price for them is huge, so plus six is hard squeeze in. Also what do you do with the people with an IQ under the alcoholic content tree bark?
What's a solid terradon unit for you?
The lack of magic weapons i knew about, i was thinking more about just upgrading one of them with the fire frog vennom to keep that S7 capacity, with you could notice from my list i quite like.
Hey, to stick salamanders at this point level, i should have to get rid the steg, right?
Why a shield on a GW wielding scar? And the first scar configuration, apart from the shield is
famous in my area, it's the super version of the adidas scar configution.
Well, thanks for the reply and the good spirited help. I'll try to fix my list some time from now.

[elysian]

Lizzies are tyranids of the fantasy world.. atleast for some parts but if you wanna swarm its skaven. Both of which I had armies at one point

[littleripperswarm]

cheifs cant have dispell scrolls sry dude (only wizards, they are arcane items)

More terradons (like units of 5 or 6!). In my experience they keep the enemy on their toes and have won the game many times for me.

Kill 1 kroxy unit and have 20 20 saurus and more skinks ( saurus in large numbers rareley lose to enemy units, asuming they dont have characters helping them out).

Oh and btw dwarfs flee -1'' all the time, but persue/overrun normally. Its because they are so stubborn, they want to stand and fight all the time, not because their legs are tiny

[happybean]

elysian
Lizzies are tyranids of the fantasy world...you lost me there, mate. Apart for lacking ranged weapons, and compansating this by some form of magic, i don't know what you are talking about. But maybe, it's me that might be lacking imagination, that's all.

littleripperswarm
Dwarfs should persue 1 less. Why? Because it's fluffy (tiny fat alcoholic midgets with worth more than twice of their weight in beard and heavy plating, running as fast as a drugged up dark elf with a vicious turista rushing to the loo, hum, very unlikely).
But this rule was done, so that they were not too penalized compared to other armies.

I shall terminate one of the krox unit. And the chief, so i could spare points for a priest and more skinks.
Should i also replace the steg by 3 salies?
I will throw the spears away if you want, it's just i got the saurus like that, WYSIWYG. I'll buy some more.
Shall i keep the terras or trade them for more saurus?
5 to 6 times..., arrrgh, that's a horrendous price for T3 enemy artillery harrasers. You'd haved to kill a lot of them to even out the point investement put into this unit!

Thanks for the help in advance.

[elysian]

I think its kinda the Fantasy staple to have some spears in there. I would keep them if thats how you have the models, I know they are not cheap. I would probably keep the steg just for personal reasons (he always saves my butt because he draws so much fire and keeps on walking). Also still not a fan of salamanders. I have always lost all the handlers before I could shoot once, but I know lots of people swear by them so I would rather drop the krox for the salamnders though. You could drop the terradons for skinks (poison) or more Saurus (wider T4 line). For sure though change the chief to a priest... I forgot that only casters could carry the scrolls, its been a while sorry.

As far as magic items there is that magic shield that does +1 magic attack that I used along with the no armor save +1str sword on my jaguar warrior. The scimitar is nice too with +2 attacks on a 5str model. Kinda like the fantasy equiv of the hidden power fist i guess.

My biggest complaint with the list is the lack of magic on an army that does magic so well... BUT.. Just play with what you want to field and have fun. Take what I have to say with a grain of salt though its been a LONG time since i played lizzys