Sustained Attack

[Enigma]

Hi all.

I always loved Meat Grinder fluff, but I don't really understand the sustained attack rule. It says all troops may be recycled, but no HQs or Vechiles may come back. So, can warriors, Raveners, etc. come back? Because otherwise tyranids don't really benefit from it.

Thanks

Hivefleetenigma

[Wyatt]

I'm taking a guess here, but I think that just means HQ units for us (makes sense, cos' HQ's are usually unqiue individuals). Just means we can't replace our Hive Tyrants or Broodlords, or sometimes broods of Warriors. Anything else just recycles - good news for Carnifex's

Not sure what the rules are for Spore Mines though...

[coredump]

It is pretty specific, not sure why there is confusion. It is troops, as in troops, as in units filling the troops slot in the FoC.

Because otherwise tyranids don't really benefit from it.

Huh? We have some of the best troops in the game
Stealers, HGs, gaunts, rippers...

[Aux]

When I looked at this topic I thought it was about EPIC.... lol I played about 7 hours of that today.... too much IG ownage..

Meat Grinder is great for Stealer Shock or a Nidzilla list

[lowlygaunt]

It is Troops and only Troops as Coredump said. The reality of sustained attack is that it is a good cool rule idea, but in practice it sucks. Unless you lose units on turns 1 and 2 they will rarely get back into the action before the game is over. Unfortunate as I like the concept of sustained attack.
Stealers especially get hurt, they have fleet, but do not have a 12" charge range, and good fleet rolls, with starting on the edge of the board it is still 3-4 turns (they have minimum 36" to go, unless your playing an idiot, anyone facing sustained assault against tyranids stays way back in their deployment zone. . or loses) making it very easy for an enemy to move away from your returning units and shoot them down again.

[Hive Fleet Phantom]

With sustained attack when your troop units come back on the table the can come on any table edge except for your opponents long table edge.

[lowlygaunt]

Good point, I had forgotten that you could use table edges out of your opponents deployment zone. I was mixing it up with the gaunt "without number" rule. I still do not think that adds much for you with a smart opponent, but it is a factor. It may allow you to recycle a unit on turn three, but not much close if your opponent is smart and keeps his units away from table edges and deep in his deployment zone. You put it on a table edge, outside his deployment zone, get to move into perfect rapid fire range, and get shot to pieces as he moves away from you again. If somehow you pull two full units back on the table, one at each end, to trap him. . your in deep doodoo anyway. . but, at least you are starting closer, and it IS free!


(beyond the fact that it makes zippo sense for common sense, I mean, if you had troops that could start 36" across the board anyway. . why didn't they? Or are they assuming the side with sustained assaults battle line stretches outside the board to both flanks, and if so, why doesn't the enemy's? And if your flanks do go outside the enemy's, why are you stupidly launching a frontal assault anyway instead of going around? All very silly and typical of rules for rules sake and simplicity, over realism/common sense. . sustained assault shold just give the attacker more points. .ooops done ranting)

[coredump]

Not only can you come on from any board edge, but you dont' have to get destroyed first.

One of the problems with WoN, is you can get down to 1-2 guants, and ignored. With SA, anytimeyou are below 50% and falling back, you can remove the unit. So watch your synapse.

there is only a small block of space that you can't get to with fleet, and HGs can hit almost the entire board.

The idea behind the fluff, is that they are defending something, either a bunch of buildings, or a ravine, or a mountain pass....etc. So you are converging on them but can't really get around them. Think 300.

[rakados]

What is meat grinder?

[barbedsparky]

Meat Grinder: The attacker has been ordered to annihilate all enemy forces, crushing them entirely in an all out attack. The defender is badly outnumbered and must sell his forces dearly to blunt the attack, taking as many of his enemies with him as possible.

Pg 195 of the BGB.

[rakados]

BGB? Is that the big rule book?

[Hive Fleet Phantom]

Yes that is the big rule book.

[Enigma]

Big grey book.

Oh yeah, and When I said doesn't benefit, I meant as in we don't recycle synapse, meaning, if the synapse is gone (as it doesn't recycle) then a huge portion of the recyclable troops (in "average" tyranid armies with lotso gaunts) are useless, seeing as they come on, move, and fall back again, then come on, and so on.