The 5th edition rumors are real

[Enigma]

Haha, fat chance...

[eclipse2kgt]

too soon.

[graveaccomplice]

From what I've heard Stealer Shock will be less effective just when my army started to get good

Depends on your view point. For +5 points per model, you get to re-roll misses in CC and get to re-roll wounds one the first turn of assault (feeder tendrils and acid maw). Rather nasty if you get to screen them behind guants. Even with 12 stealers the total is less than a marine chappie or far seer with the needed powers.


However, people can now force your lictor to make dangerous terrain checks every time you put him one the board (deepstriking into area terrain subjects the unit to dangerous terrain checks).


Mixed results overall.

[shaggy]

There is a leaked rulebook on limewire. My local shop owner and I sat down and played a couple. The rules are great in theroy but litterally don't work in practice. For instance if an independant charactor moves within 2" he must join that unit. Problem for tau is if you get too close to your own men you loose your jump ability in the assualt phase. Furthermore, it says he joins a unit and earlier in the book it calls independant charactors units, so you have a charactor joining a charactor. now when those charactors move too close they both join the unit. There is no limit for how many charactors can join a unit listed.

Target priority is thrown out the window completly. We are back to 32 guaunts screening the whole army again but this time they do not need to be in combat, just on the board (so I guess its not all bad.)

All models must be on the bases provided. No more sceninc bases unless you can fit your hero and scenery on the standard base. If your skimmer snapps off the flying base peg and gets lodged inside, you must buy a new model. It MUST not touch the table unless it lands.

My favorite is that LOS is drawn from the model's eyes (yes this is how they word it) and Trouble is your own units block LOS unless you can literally see under the model ie skimmers. It is entirely possible to have a unit of dire avengers behind their wave serpent fire underneth and there is no way to hit them back without droping the tank first and blocking your LOS to them with wreckage.

There are so many more problems I'm forgeting now. Our seccond game had a two hour movement phase while we figured out how to move a model on the board again. Point is these rules are by no means complete. They look ok when you read them but when you have tournament judges think about how to solve problems before they come up they crumbled into a bottle of tylenol headache. For the sake of your own sanity just ignore them untill the final book comes out in the summer.

[Utah Jak]

God, I hope that's just another play test rule set leaked. Because if it is the real rules, I'll be in for even more work on my Flyrant. I'll have to figure out a way to get it placed on a GW base. Really fething brilliant GW. This so better not be the real rule set.

[coredump]

Hmmm... I don't see these as too much of a problem..

For instance if an independant charactor moves within 2" he must join that unit.

So, to qualify for the benefits of being an independent character, you have to be operating independently. No more hiding an 'independent' character in the middle of another unit.

Problem for tau is if you get too close to your own men you loose your jump ability in the assualt phase.

2" just isn't that far. And since you get to control where you move, just don't move real close.[/quote] Furthermore, it says he joins a unit and earlier in the book it calls independant charactors units, so you have a charactor joining a charactor. now when those charactors move too close they both join the unit. There is no limit for how many charactors can join a unit listed.[/quote]That is basically how the rules are now. There is no limit to the number of characters that can join a unit. Currently, an IC is also considered a unit. There is a stipulation in 4E, that you can't have one IC join another. My guess is that rule is still there, try and check for it.

We are back to 32 guaunts screening the whole army again but this time they do not need to be in combat, just on the board (so I guess its not all bad.)

Big change. But not sure if it is bad or good. As it is now, screening really does no good. OTOH, if12 stealers are 8" in front of you, and one spore mine is 7" behind you, you still need to make a check before shooting the stealers.

All models must be on the bases provided. No more sceninc bases unless you can fit your hero and scenery on the standard base.

This would suck, but I have a really hard time believing it, since they make their money on models, and modeling is a big part of the game. They may tighten up the rules a bit, since right now I can put a gaunt on a 10" base.

If your skimmer snapps off the flying base peg and gets lodged inside, you must buy new model. It MUST not touch the table unless it lands.

This can't be accurate. First, no one, not even most tourneys, follow all of the modeling rules. And no one is going to buy a new model, there are a bunch of ways to fix that problem.

My favorite is that LOS is drawn from the model's eyes (yes this is how they word it)

Glad that is your favorite. That is how the rules are *now*.

and Trouble is your own units block LOS unless you can literally see under the model ie skimmers. It is entirely possible to have a unit of dire avengers behind their wave serpent fire underneth and there is no way to hit them back without droping the tank first and blocking your LOS to them with wreckage.

I am not even sure what you are saying here.

Point is these rules are by no means complete.

What makes you think they will be the same as the final rules?

[rebmonk]

I too have the limewire pdf and it brings up some interesting points. My favorite is wound distribution now, along with the above LOS (meaning you can now screen your army with gaunts again, except for the monstrous creatures).

Anyways, it dictates the following scenario: Say you have a 10 man squad with a lascannon, a plasma gun, and a sergeant with a powerfist. I cause you to take 15 saves. You must put one "armor save" on each model before you allocate any model a 2nd armor save. This means that the lascannon, the plasma gun, and the sergant all have to take their own save and if they die you pick that model up, you dont get to remove a marine without a special gun. I like this, as realistically the lascannon guy may get hit, as it stops people from pulling out the heavy weapons last.

Although why then they keep the cover save with a majority ruling is beyond me. Allocate saves to everyone, if the models in cover it gets a save if its not in cover it doesn't. Seems reasonable to me.

The whole nerfing rending hurts us though, but they keep it as 2 seperate entries. They should make shooting rending like the new rending and keep cc rending as is, IMO

[WestRider]

As far as I can tell from stuff on other sites (mostly seems to be coming from WarSeer), the PDF that's floating around is a pretty badly outdated playtest version, and a number of major changes have occurred since it was written.

As far as new Dexes, they've actually done a better job on this than ever before. Everything back to the Eldar Dex has been written with 5th Ed in mind, and apparently a number of the things that are pretty broken in the Eldar and Chaos Dexes will be balanced out when 5th comes out.

[Enigma]

coredump: Actually, about from eyes, it never says from eye to enemy, it just says "from a model's eye view" And, that means any point on miniature, or at least anywhere realistic. After all, you don't expect the railgun pathfinder lying down to do it behind a solid fence. It would stand up or kneel.

Anyhew, I shall go over things that shaggy said, one by one.

Independent Characters joining units: Well, yeah, very unrealistic in my opinion. On a *real* battlefield, just because said... well let's just use a Commisar and some Guardsmen (I'm pretty sure he is a IC) anyhew... Just because said Commisar happens to be standing next to said squad, doesn't mean that he will join up with them, and inspire them, and use them as living shields. He just happens to be standing near.

Next: For screening: You can't really say it's realistic, but hey. They really, though, should have more sizes. Warriors/lictors are larger than rippers (much larger) and therefore, the rippers shouldn't block line of sight at all. But, other than that little bit of surrealism, I'm fine with that.

Bases: WTF?!! That sucks! Sure, it prevents some guy from creating a space marine or tank that is uber tall, but still! What about modelling? This removes a ton of need to model, unless you actually want people to look at your diorama/slaughter/awesome carnifex seperately. Sucks...

Eyes: Well, not very realistic is it? First of all, rippers with spinefists (yes, I know no one ever gets them) are extremely short, and that means either stay in cover (and not fire) or go into the open (and get pulverized. Badly) I've also seen pathfinders with rail rifles, and some lie down on their bellies, to get a more sniperish pose. Now, if you have that model, you are officially screwed over. And, do you really expect marines to hold their pose of just standing straigt up? No, they crouch, lean etc.

Well, that was my rant, rather short, but hey...

[Psychichobo]

If that eyes thing remains, what about models with no definite viewpoint? Zoanthropes don't even have eyes! Vehicles would be a bit difficult to sort out too.

[zoanthrope1138]

:-XDark Eldar are ment to be 4th on the list *cough* *cough*
:-XNids are 3rd *cough* *cough*
:-XThe Orks are out now *cough* *cough*

[coredump]

it just says "from a model's eye view" And, that means any point on miniature, or at least anywhere realistic.

Why would you think that "from a model's eye view" does not mean the view from the eye of the model? And what is more 'realistic' than checking LoS from the eyes?

First of all, rippers with spinefists

Since rippers are size 1, and have the small special rule, it seems to make perfect sense. And it works both ways, if you can't see them, they can't see you. (for the most part)

[phiddlercat]

About the IC joining a squad point, surely if an IC is standing close to a squad, the squad will be inspired whether he wants them to be or not? And also, from the enemy's viewpoint, they look like one large squad; as a model cannot be picked out for targeting purposes from a squad, if an IC is close enough, he will be indistinguishable from that squad. Therefore, the new 'rule' makes sense, at least to me...

[zoanthrope1138]

utahjak said:

Do you think Necrons and Dark Eldar will finally receive a new Dex in 5th ed or will they be eternally stuck in 3rd?

not to sure bout necrons but dark-eldar :-Xtheyre 4th on the
list

[invictus]

lol I just found my Dark Eldar codex, sad that I took such a long break from 40k and I still have their most current ruleset...