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Post by lowlygaunt on Feb 4, 2008 23:45:18 GMT
Ok, since my creative juices for the fantasy setting have been re-kindled, I have decided to start a new army. I will base it around Forest Goblin Spider riders, and hope to make it entirely of forest goblins. I know this is risky and out of the normal Orc and Goblin path. But at 8.99 for 10 spider riders bitted out of the big boxed set, I couldn't resist and bought 50. . . .
Ok, so, any goblin players out there who can simply weigh in with advice, creative ideas, concepts etc that can help me here? I have little experience with Orcs andGoblins from Warhammer so needall the help I can get! I know running an all forest goblin army is choosing to go away from the strengths of the codex, and that is exactly why I am doing it. Can my tactical abilities with lots of fast cavalry make up for the weakness inherent in my units? I love this kind of challenge.
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Post by CylonDorado on Feb 5, 2008 2:08:17 GMT
Well, I just got me a new warhammer starter set and havn't quite gotten a firm grasp on the rules yet, but I think if you got an Orc boss on a wyvern it would look cool with all those spider riders.
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Post by Overread on Feb 5, 2008 3:06:31 GMT
Take a look at this for making an orky wyvern out of the high elf dragon model (I ahve one and its a darn fine model! (tip - don't glue the wings on - the peg is tight enough to hold them in without glue and it makes them easier to carry around) uk.games-workshop.com/highelves/dragons/6/ |
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Post by koran on Feb 5, 2008 7:32:41 GMT
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Post by Overread on Feb 5, 2008 11:25:31 GMT
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Post by lowlygaunt on Feb 5, 2008 19:58:49 GMT
Yeah the giant spider special order model inspired me too Koran!
Guys. . love the conversion idea, but. . I said I am running a forest goblin army to move away from the strengths of the codex and herohammer. . an Orc on a wyvern IS herohammer. . and the strength of the codex. . read the post a little closer please, and help me with my actual question.
Ihavealready found a few "tactics" pages. . and in general they seem to focus on howto build an unstoppable army, and sadly ignore units they do not consider point effecient (the giant spider rider for one, any goblins beside night goblins for a second) anyone got anything that can help me with my themed army?
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Post by flyingspoon on Feb 5, 2008 20:13:47 GMT
the battle for skull pass is your friend here espically if you have a friend starting dwarves as you can exchange the dwarves for gobbos giving you a good couple thousand points
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Post by lowlygaunt on Feb 5, 2008 23:49:24 GMT
Flyingspoon: yeah that isw hat got me going, Warstore bits the battle for skull pass, so I don't even need to split it. . 10 spider riders for 8.99. . .now I just need to learn how I can effectively use 50 of them. . 50 spider riders in say units of 5-8 models each should be some scary flanking action, now if only my weedy little gits in formations can survive long enough for flanking attacks to save them.
Anybody had luck running an army based on fast cavalry in fantasy? I have good luck with my wood elves, and they can be very similiar in play style. . .I hope. . hmmm of course wood elves, dryads, tree-kin, etc can actualy fight, and aren't 2 feet tall and skinny, hmmm and don't gouge each others eyes out or charge forward like frothing idiots 1/3 of the time, and sometimes they actualy stay and fight when they lose a combat. . this might be rough.
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Post by CylonDorado on Feb 6, 2008 1:01:09 GMT
How many points would all those spider riders cost? I'm still reading the rulebook, and I've never played a game, "so take this with a grain of salt". I have a killer 1500 point gaunt swarm, with 71 gaunts, 20 stealers, a melee flyrant, and some big guns backing them up. I was thinking the wyvern would be like the tyrant, witch could help the spiders in cc, because they are individualy weak, but if you don't want one that's fine. Maybe you could have a few elite CC face eaters running around to support them in a simmilar way (like the genestealers). And then you could use powerful, long range firepower to soften up the enemy for the riders, if goblins have any. That's what really makes my 'nid army work.
Yeah I hate it when people suck the fun out of a game by trying to achieve maximum efficiency. If everyone had "the perfect list" witch doesn't exist, table top games would get old quick. Luckily most people don't think like that.
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Post by lowlygaunt on Feb 6, 2008 21:33:02 GMT
Well, spider riders are only in the 12-14 point range. . so even 50 is only about a third of my total points, even if I add full command squads and a hero. Goblins are dirt cheap for a reason. . I am thinking of a unit of trolls to go along, but the new stupidity rules are extremely harsh, and even having my army general in range for his leadership measn I will fail 40% or so of the time (goblin warboss has a leadership of 8. . tough to be a general with a little weedy voice and big ears. . and the reality is I want to go with a level four goblin shaman, so leadership 7. . ).
I may be relying on artillery or a giant for my punch in this army. . although 2 snottling pump wagons is really tempting.
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Post by CylonDorado on Feb 6, 2008 23:52:43 GMT
50 riders being only 1 third of your points sounds fantastic! Sorry your spiders won't be the workhorses of your army, but it sounds promising that you could put all those models on the table and still be viable. Is it really that hard to make an army in fantasy with no characters? Also what's a snottling pump wagon, and what's wrong with using it? Would it not fit your theme?
Edit: Yeah, I just took a look at the online store, and I think that pump wagon would look great in your army, especialy if you modeled some foilage and stuff on it to make it go with the forest goblin theme. The same goes for artillery pieces, they'd make the goblins seem sneakier.
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Post by koran on Feb 7, 2008 7:24:29 GMT
OK, I would say to use squads of 10 minimum... Anything less and they will die to easily. Also never (or very rarely) give them a banner.... The unit is so cheap and throwing in the banner is just giving the enemy an easy 100vp when they beat them in CC.
And for an all goblin army, remember, bolt throwers are your friends... take MANY of them. And yeah, convert them a little to look forest goblin-ish enough.
If you do want to use some orcs, I saw a cool conversion a while back that was a goblin giving another a piggyback... Nice for "counts as" and orc.
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Post by flyingspoon on Feb 7, 2008 18:30:18 GMT
the rock lobba is really fun if you can guess inches well (unlike me who has poor depth perception) but spiders are really good if you use them well. use big units for Goblins and i mean big roughly 40+ in unit size fanatics can be useful if you field night gobbo units as can netters (-1 strength on the roll of a 2+)
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Post by lowlygaunt on Feb 7, 2008 18:43:51 GMT
Answering questions: 1. I plan to NOT take units of 10 spider riders, as fast cavalry they NEVER get a rank bonus, so their real purpose is flank charges to deny my opponent rank bonus, so I am going with units of 5-7 (remember cavalry have a unit strength of 2 per model, and it only take a unit strength of 5 to deny rank bonus, so I can lose as many as 4 from a unit of 7 and still accomplish this, and yeah, no banners). I hope more small units will be better than a few larger ones, as it will be harder to eliminate all of them, panic tests caused by them fleeing will be fewer, and I can cover more of the board and have more options (artilery will DIE to my spiders MUAHAHAHAHAHA). I may make on larger unit to put my shaman in as some protection. 2. Fantasy armies must have characters, at 2k points you get 4 characters, one of which may be a lord, the real issue is even a goblin lord is not a very frightening guy (goblins have the worst stat line in the game for characters, I think), and I plan to go with a shaman lord, and 1 or 2 more low level shamans, so will have just one goblin "hero" (you have to use the term lightly with gobbos). So my combat punch will be an issue, and often warhammer is HERO hammer, as the heroes do 70% of the work, so I am betting on magic to make up for it. 3. Snotling pump wagons are great and fit my theme perfectly! It is a chariot like device powered by snotlings (tiny goblins) like an old fashioned railroad trolley, or by steam. It moves across the table a random distance each turn, 2d6. if it strikes an enemy it does 2d6 impact hits that can devestate a unit (remember in fantasy units rank up base to base generaly 5 wide and 20 strong or more) The issue is in fantasy they are a rare choice, and i am limited to two rare choices. For my rare choices i can get 2 snotling pump wagons, or a giant, or some usefull artillery pieces. Tough choices. As to total numbers, it is common in fantasy games for armies to have 70-100 models on the table, in groups of 10to 20, ranked into solid squares. 50 spider riders will be joined by at least two units of goblins 30 models strong (5 ranks wide, 6 ranks deep). This will still only be about half my 2k points. I am still deciding what I want exactly. Currently some trolls, more goblin archers, maybe some wolf riders, 2 snotling pump wagons, bolt throwers, a catapult, and maybe a doom diver are all on the possible list. this model: www.thewarstore.com/product7443.htmlhas really inspired me as a giant, I HATE!!!!!!!!! the new giant model from GW, it has terrible chicken legs, islooks like both were broken and set wrong as akid, and I cant stand its huge beer belly and saggy muscles. . just me personal opinion. Sadly, there are no trolls on any of the GW webpages for sale, a model they have removed, temporarily hopefully, so also looking for some troll alternatives, some of the horde ones might work, but their costs compared to reaper are frustrating. Anyone have any suggestions for trolls? |
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Post by shiro on Feb 8, 2008 1:31:03 GMT
Personally I would avoid using trolls as they have such terrible Ld which becomes something of a liability. Snotling pump wagons are more entertaining then practical, they are fast but you will have plenty of cavalry already. At least they are dirt cheap. A giant is preferable provided you can find an alternative to the most recent GW version (which is just ugly). The 6th ed giant is arguably the better looking; ebay or another trading forum would be the most likely place to find one.
Regarding trolls, the best place to find them is ebay, generally cheaper too.
If you have the patience, consider obtaining a few of the old forest goblin metal figures, equipped with either spears of bows. The models would go brilliantly with the spider rider theme, or failing that, provide some ideas for on how to convert common goblins to make them belong in the forest.
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