Bio-acid and monoliths

[Hive Fleet Phantom]

Would a bio-acid spore mine still get 2d6 for armor penetration against a monolith as it is not really an bonus die (like at half range for melta weapon etc.) but part of the weapons normal profile?

[romorini]

Yes, though I would recommend using other weapons anyway. Acid mines technically have a chance, but not really.

[Dropfred]

I would think that the living metal rule would mean that you only get 1 d6 for armour penertation the same as if a TMC hit it would only get 1d6 instead of its normal 2d6

[Hyper Kinetic]

You only get 1D6 for it. As is stated in the BioAcid Spore rules, they normally get 2D6 penetration dice and the Monolith makes all penetrations 1D6 at most. So you only get 1D6.

[barbedsparky]

Definitely 2D6+3, as this is the standard penetration roll for a Bio-acid mine, no bonus or extra dice involved here. As stated in the last FAQ I believe (sorry no linkage right now...)

[Overread]

I have seen this argument before and I side with barbeddsparky. The damage for a bio=acid mine is not a bonus damage roll - it is the roll for the basic - unmodified strength of the mine and as such is not affected by the living metal rule.

[coredump]

The 'lith 'Living Metal' rule specifically prevents 'extra' penetration dice. It does not say it 'halves' the penetration dice, or anything like that.

The mine does not get extra dice, it is defined as being 2d6+3, thus it keep that.

Similarly, it does not have a 'strength', so even if the hole is not over the vehicle, if it hits at all, it gets 2d6+3

[hivefleetsiafu]

i agree with overmind and coredump , its the mines basic profile so it uneffected ;D

[Hive Fleet Green Locust]

You might need to check a Necron Codex for this as it has been a while since I played them, but I believe the Living Metal rule says all rolls to penetrate roll 1d6 + unmodified Str regardless of special rules.

If this is the case, then bio-acid rolls 1d6+3 and can't effect armour 14.

[coredump]

You might need to check a Necron Codex for this as it has been a while since I played them,

The 'lith 'Living Metal' rule specifically prevents 'extra' penetration dice. It does not say it 'halves' the penetration dice, or anything like that.

[Overread]

yes Locast - but remember our basic strength - unmodified - IS 2d6+3. So we get that and the other 1d6 as well. Its not a special rule that affects the strength its the rule that defins the strength - there is the difference

[Hyper Kinetic]

Hmm... going over it and re-reading the Tyranid Book, it says the Penetration is 2D6+3... but the FAQ says that the Strength is 2D6+3...
Another case of poor wording?

[Hive Fleet Green Locust]

Yes it is poor wording. The rule says that "in practice" ALL to penetrate rolls are made with 1d6+str.

Since a bio-acid mine is Str 3 against non-vehicle models, it rolls only 1d6+3

[invictus]

This is iffy. The Tyranids errata it states that the mines do not use their basic strength but a special rule instead and that Bio-Acid spore mines always roll a 2d6+3 to penetrate vehicle armor. While the Necron faq says don't count any bonus penetration. I see it as the spore mines use a special rule (not a bonus dice) for armor penetration therefore they roll 2d6+3 vs All Vehicles (monolith included). But it could be argued the other way too...

[Hive Fleet Green Locust]

My point is that it is contradictory to the "feel" of the game to try to stretch wording to get an advantage (& in this case not a good one). There is no way that a sac of acid that is meant to melt metal could do anything to a vehicle whose metal cannot be melted.

The 'Living Metal' rule has a clause at the end of it that is supposed to clear up this discussion. That clause says that you only EVERY roll 1d6+unmod Str, unless hit with Ordanance. Therefore you can only every roll 1d6, regardless of any special rule.

Besides, even if you could use the mine's 2d6+3, you still need to roll a 5&6 or 6&6 to do anything. In my opinion, not even worth arguing for.