MTG, infection hate!!! (and question)

[wisdomseyes1]

For all of those who play MTG, I have a short rant, followed by a question.

WHY DID THEY INVENT INFECT?!?!?!?! I would be fine if it was a black specific ability, and would tolerate green. No, EVERY color can get it. Add to that, you only have 10 life against it. What the heck?

They basically made poison, a rule that was there before this, very over powered in compairison to what it was. How does this make any sense? Poison 1 was a powerful ability. Now its poison 9 because you get 3 giant growths???

The deals damage in -1/-1 counters i can accept. It fits with what it is meant to be. Infecting and sickening the enemies like Nurgal does...

I think it is the stupidest thing they ever created, and makes it much harder (not impossible) for non-infect decks to win. White decks have no point anymore. Black decks have nothing unique to them (you can't regenerate from -1/-1 counters, which minus abilities where unique to black before this) Red has to work 2 times as fast, and blue better not let ANYTHING get through, because the weakest creature in the deck can win the game in 1 attack with the right buffs. Green gets lots of stuff out, but any flying infect will destroy you.

I was able to win almost all of my games before, but now I start with a handicap (half health... which you can't ever gain life with), and they added pherexian mana knowing that life is irrelevant.

To my question, as before this dumb new rule it has never come up before. Do planeswalkers need to get 10 poison counters before they die, or can infect not touch them?

[mina]

I am going to step in here as someone who has been playing for 12 years... Infect is not as broken as it seems. Despite it leaving you with a 10 turn clock many of the infect creatures are overcosted and under powered. A good player can win with infect, but a poor player can stop it.

With the many ways to kill, counter, and block no one should lose purely because of infect.

Instead of coming in and (please do not swear) about infect because it took you off a winning streak consider how the format has changed and adapt. It is done all the time in 40k and magic is no different.

Much of magic is not about the cards, but the player behind them. A great player can win with commons, a poor player will lose with mythic rares.

[wisdomseyes1]

I still win, but life is no longer a factor in the game. The healing step is no longer a factor in the game. Regeneration is no longer an ability that works.

This seems like a black ability, but blue is so common to have it. Giant growth and plague assassin (2 mana unblockable 1/1 infect, forget its name... but pretty close to what I said) makes the game half over by the second turn.

And Jaka, all it was was a short rant. It is the dumbest thing I have ever seen, but I am not saying that I wont have to deal with it. Kind of like in 40k if they made a 5 point model with 2+ poison standard and gant stats. Stupid is stupid, but you have to deal with the stupidity of the gaming company.

And actually... its a good thing for my friends that infect came out... because now I am only winning half of my games. I actually find it harder to take out Myrs though... god @#!*% tempered steel, galvinizers, battlespears.

But... someone can lose purely because of infect. There isn't many ways to stop your opponent from getting + strength on an unblockable creature and only allowing 10 life which you may never ever get back (the main use of most white cards is restoring life and preventing damage)

Any artifact or equipment that allows the creature to deal damage to creature or player, IS INFECTED. Yea, some crossbow enchantment gives me 2 poison counters a turn. That artifact is 2 mana to play and equipped.

Rather than thinking that I am not planning on doing something about it, which I am--- as I said, stupid is stupid, no matter how you sugar coat it---, maybe answer my question -.-

[mina]

Firstly, originally infect was called poison, they worked the exact same way but poison only hurt the player, not the creature. Back in the day it was powerful, but no impossible to deal with.

Today is no different. How do you deal with an unblockable 1/1? You (please do not swear) kill it or exile it like a boss. Red can kill, black can kill, white exiles, green well, you just have to race them or play a multi colored deck, blue you counter and bounce.

Infect was and is a lovely little idea that adds spice to magic much like any other new concept. It helps the game not become stagnant.
People have and always will dislike changes, especially if they were on a winning streak. I advise less QQ and more accepting the change as a way to make the game different. I also would keep in mind that like all things in magic it will spiral out eventually.

[mina]

Almost forgot to mention, it deals damage normally to the walker so the walker loses counters.

[andy089]

i have seen many things come and go in MtG and even though I hated many of them at first, I sooner or later started to enjoy them.
But then again I usually play rather weird decks that won't win. They just make the opponent go "wait, what?"

[Psychichobo]

Infect is pretty scary, I do see some of your points. I too have been at the receiving end of a giant growth'd imp.

Right then, rather than berate you for hating it, I shall instead HELP!

Infect hits hardest in two areas: It's more dangerous to let through, as unlike that irksome 1/1 goblin that you can't be arsed blocking, it's a creature that puts a counter on you that can be proliferated. This is as well as the Giant Growth/Phyrexian mana nastiness that can do horrid things.
It's also good at battered big scary creatures. Suddenly your wall crumbles by the hour, your Duskdale wurm crumbling. Unless you've got one of those weird Shadowmoor creatures that noms -1/-1 counters, you're a bit screwed.


So, you need to fight Phyrexia with Phyrexia - expendability! Chuck creatures at them that can afford to die, that'll bring theirs down with them. Drop cheap spells like lightning bolt down and shred them. Go For The Throat and Doomblade are two good counters too.

First Strike is also amazing. Get that if you can.

Artifact destruction is present in Green and Red in high volumes. Get it, and get nuking those Bows and stuff.

Speed is of the essence. You need to rely on cheap stuff, rather than big goliaths. Big spells are fine, but they better be good.



Remember, Infect is now present in all 5 colours, so don't go thinking you're always against black. I've got a blue/white infect opponent, for example.


Some colour-based spells and tricks for fighting infect:

White: Can prevent damage a lot, and exile stuff. Good at artifact killing too. Destroy/exile artifacts, creatures and awkward enchantments. Prevent damage when your opponent's stuff hits you, ruin their day. Don't bother with lifegaining abilities. Drop cheap creatures, plenty of flyers too. Don't be afraid to lose creatures. Also, if you're EXTREMELY lucky, you might be able to get ahold of Leeches, an old spell that removes poison counters from players. Not likely though.



Red: Very similar story, but better at burn spells. Drop goblins and the like, blisterstick shamans are good for jobbing those 1/1 infects. Lightning bolt, Shock, Arc Trail, Chandra's Outrage... just kill those creatures fast. First strike's common here too.

Blue: Counter. Counter counter counter. Also return your own creatures to your hand when they're infected. Creatures aren't hot, but you're probably running blue alongside another colour. You can also steal their creatures, which is fun.

Black: DESTROY. Black has so many creature killing spells it's not even funny, and a few actually affect black creatures too, though you might have to go back a few series. Discard upsets, but really, you're in to kill. Regenerators are wasted here, but don't be afraid to revive evil dead stuff to take on the next wave of infect.

Green: Destroy artifacts, get big cheap creatures out. Green may not like flyers (I have 2 green flyers, found after much searching), but they have the spells to kill them. Plummet is very popular, and there's enchantment killing too. Mana spamming's also good, get stuff out early and make sure it upsets.



Overall, Infect relies on either proliferating or being fast. If you can counter these two factors you're on to a winner. I lost with my infect deck to a fast ninja deck not too long ago.

[Tyamius, Shadow Lord]

Its poison and wither, it symbolizes the Phyrexian oil that is created by the Mycosynth that dot the underground of Mirrodin. It infects all it touches corrupting them beyond repair. Just get the new green elf chick and give her indestructibility, add phyrexian unlife to the mix and you can never lose the game.

[The Tomato]

No, Infect is not a gamebreaking abillity. Poison has been around for ages and I believe damage in form of -1/-1 was common a few years ago.

My point is, MTG has seen far worse. During the old mirodin the mechanics affinity and arcbound were comonly played together. (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=70020)

[mina]

I agree with Tomato, and I loved Mirriodin despite that.

I also entirely support Psych's post, I just couldn't be bothered to explain it in that much detail because it was 2 in the morning here. XD

[zephoid]

Its called power creep. Its been going on since onslaught. I stopped playing competitively for this exact reason. Wizards thinks that EVERY new set needs a new mechanic and some strange new plot in a new land to keep people interested. Stronghold-invasion was 1 plot line and i have to say that was the best days of magic. Yes, urzas was a bit broken, but the vast majority of the cards were utility over brute force. they just combined so much utility that it broke things.

Suicide black and hatred were funny as hell way back in the days, but had huge drawbacks. now you have a 1/1 infect that, if it gets through, gets pumped enough to kill you with simple green spells. And thats any time a 1/1 gets through you have to worry about that.

To beat it you have to play hard kill spells. He pumps it? blow it up or bounce it. he wastes the pump spells and looses the creature. Card advantage is yours. And remember, this game is 80% about card advantage. If you can make him waste 2-3 spells for your one, you have a huge leg up.


If your playing type 1, grab leeches. Poison in the old days was TERRIBLE. literally useless and NO ONE played it, no matter what people currently think (i played since mirage, i know 1st hand). but even then they saw the need to put in a counter to it.

[Bot]

Glad I'm only gaming MTG with my friends, who already have so many cards that they would rather spend their money on warhammer ^^

That infect thingy have not effected me.
Mu
ha
ha
xD

[Geneva]

I quit MTG in the Mirrodin set. Arbound Ravager, Skulltap, Proteus Staff... Now they were game breakers! Infect doesn't seem all that scary by comparison.

[wisdomseyes1]

Jun 7, 2011 4:52:52 GMT @mina said:

Firstly, originally infect was called poison, they worked the exact same way but poison only hurt the player, not the creature.

Poison was vastly different than infect though. Poison was "poison 1/2/3/..." which only delt a static number of poison counters to the creature. Now, increasing a creatures strength, not very hard to do, increases the abilities effect as well, which with such little damage needed, is fairly scary.

I could argue the same with trample, this is true, but trample is almost exclusively green, and requires quite a bit more to get through on top of the fact that it uses life.

With poison, you still used life, there was just a different factor applying as well.

Poison is not nearly the same thing as infect in terms of dealing with vs player.

----And as I have said, I lose more often to myrs (I think they were from mirriden...) than I do infect. It just annoys me that infect is an all color thing, rather than color specific. (I can't imagine red infect cards, not can i imagine how scary they must be as they don't require direct damage to give off poison counters. Burn deck against opponent with 10 life would be very scary)

[Psychichobo]

There's no red burn spells, but there are a couple of red infecters - there's an expensive version of prodigal pyromancer who has infect, a firebreathing ogre, and one or two other things.

I bought a Mirrodin deck not too long ago, Sunburst. Was amazed at how badass it was for an old deck. Mix and match with some of the new artifacts and bam, I had a pretty badass 5 colour deck.

I often play against very powerful opponents - there's a Knight Deck full of Indestructibles, a guy who lets you play them from the graveyard (including a changeling death spell), and protections; there's a metalcraft deck that's faster than lightning; there's a landfall deck that has done 80 damage to an opponent in one turn, and so on.

A lot of games are played for fun here though, but we do like to tweak our decks to a high potential. It's why we always play legacy and then go rooting around old discard piles in shops that sell Magic - so we can find interesting old cards and put them to good use. Usually it was pretty cheap too, so it didn't cost us too much.


Really, the game's annoying if really played to win, casual play's the way forward. Infect is very nasty though, but some cards can still kick ass. I have an old Effigy card from some ancient set that basically is a slightly cheaper, weaker version of the new card Cathedral Membrane.

Power creep seems scary, but some old cards are just as brutal.