A short rant on ignorance.

[wisdomseyes1]

Well, just for the Adam and Eve thing... well it freaks me out a little... doesn't that mean that we are all related... I've seen what happens when cousins marry... ;D

Not saying the Big Bang theory is right either. Something must have brought us to existence. You can't make something out of nothing unless you are a deity right?

[kingin]

Ya even with the big bang theroy, how was the little bit of matter came about?!

The reason why like family cousins now can't marry like back then is because Adam and Eve were perfect, but because sinning against God they gave up their perfection, and the more times you have kids the worse it gets. So now being 2010AD almost thousands of years after, our bodys are slowly getting worse and worse, as you can see with cancer and many deisaes that were not seen back then.

[wisdomseyes1]

This is true, but wasn't it common for people to consider 30 year olds in the same way we consider 80 year olds?

[Dangeresque]

Are we still talking about the prevalence of Homophobia? I had some points I started typing out, but had to leave before I posted. So...

[wisdomseyes1]

Yea, I am still curious. At the moment, it seems to be an exchange of ideas. Most homophobes do use the bible as an argument, which kind of rooted into this discussion at the moment.

What is your take on the original topic Dangeresque?

[Dangeresque]

Very well then...

Well, first things first, as an agnostic raised as a Christian I would have to say that the bible (and other religious texts) offers so many conflicting morals and points of living that it requires an adherent to double-think simply to follow the rules that lead to a "religious lifestyle".

Here's an Christian example: The bible says, somewhere, that homosexuality is an affront to God, a sin. It also holds greed, exploitation, prostitution and the like to be sins. Then, this man called Jesus goes about preaching UNIVERSAL LOVE and FORGIVENESS. These two all-caps terms are perhaps the most important institutions of Cristian morality... and probably the least practiced.

I don't think you can really blame the fundamentals of Christianity. You can blame people who do not practice them. Whether they like it or not, most adherents do not practice even the most basic concepts in the bible. You have religious racists, sexists and homophobes. This should not be possible under as a policy of forgiveness and mutual love defines the religion at it's oft-forgotten core.

I cannot speak for other religions, but I believe they must be similar. I recall a great Rabbi instructing a doubter, who said he would only convert to Judaism if he could be taught and understand the Torah whilst standing on one leg, without his other leg becoming tired and falling to the ground. The Rabbit said something like this.

"That which is abhorrent to you, inflict on no person. That is the message of the Torah. The rest is commentary. Now go study it."

So, it would seem that Judaism fits the mold. It's religious hypocrisy that causes problems, and sadly the conflictions in belief go unnoticed and undiscussed. The holy texts are irreproachable it seems.

TL;DR for the above? Religion conflicts with itself, and no one seems to care, let alone wish to re-evaluate the importance of core beliefs.

As for your Grandmother... I'm a great fan of the joke "crosswords were added to newspapers to give your grandparents a break from racism." Stereotype, yes. Truthful stereotype? Somewhat, like all stereotypes. Stereotype that applies to this situation? Yes.
Homosexuality has only gained the level of acceptance it has now relatively recently. The older people in the world lived at a time when the "different" was treated with utter disgust. Look at attitudes towards Jews or Asians in the past 100 years, or apartheid, or today's condemnation of Islam. These attitudes are merely diminished over time, they still exist in some, but not enough to have a great effect. Thus, an older person like your grandmother, by virtue of the time she grew up in, would have issue with far more "minorities" than yourself or I. I believe that in another hundred years we'll have a whole new set of social stigmas whilst those prevalent today will be far less a problem with most people.

TL;DR for the above? History dilutes over time, so archaic practices that made sense in the mindset of way back when remain, but are lessened.

TL;DR for the TL;DR above? History ruined everything.

I s'pose the difference between a gay relationship and a straight one comes down to the following: "Straight relationships traditionally made babies. Making babies is the reason for relationships. All other relationships do not make babies. All other relationships are unnatural" Not only is this a woefully, WOEFULLY outdated notion... it's probably what caused homosexuality to be condemned in the first place. If what would most likely be the original cause of homophobia does not apply to a heterosexual relationship, it can't really apply to a homosexual one.

"Homosexuality causes AIDS" is something that is regarded to be false by everyone who isn't looking for dirty ammunition to defend their beliefs with. First time it became prevalent in modern medical history was in the gay community. There's simple science behind that, and also why AIDS is seen as more probable in gays (a reasonable but not universal statement), but for reasons of taste I won't go into it unless someone wants me to clarify. Suffice to say, it did not develop in the homosexual community, it is caused by sharing blood rather than sex, and was soon found to affect everyone when blood transfusions and placental blood and other things like that gave the disease to perfectly innocent newborns and sufferers of blood related illness.

Animals can be homosexual, I've seen it with my own two eyes. It is a fact. End of story.

What's wrong with being gay? Well, gay's do not conform to the societal norms of the far-more-numerous straight people, and what does not conform is seen as wrong for most. I don't think there's a human being alive who doesn't practice that. We all have our reservations, whether it be a fear of spiders for their strange appearance and potential to cause harm (of which I am guilty), or an intolerance of homosexuality.

[Loplod]

Man, I wait hours and hours for a reply and nothing. Leave for school and 3 pages worth.

I can't go though and sum it all up so pretty much. All of you agreeing with me, Have yourself an internet hi-five

All those agreeing with wisdom (Which is just wisdom) Chill out man. personal attacks don't happen on forums, and when they do people generally deal with it. I read through all three pages and pretty much what I said would happen happened. Just a giant flame war about religion and homosexuality.

But more on point to what you said before about opinions and stuff, What I am getting at is that sure you can have one, sure you can let in influence your posts. But its when you start to try and change the way we do things. I mean how do you think people would react if I started sending them PM's and responding to posts with "HAVE YOU MET JESUS" I don't think it would go down well.

All in saying is by all means do what you want.. Just don't try and drag us into it. Also another think that is just sorta iffy and why I used the word "attention seeking" is because you have made point to let us all know quite loudly. I mean saying "Rainbows and sunshine and butterflies and guys and lollipops" really doesn't need "guys" in there to get your point across. you don't see me saying "Joy: Tits and ass ALL DAY E'ERY DAY CAUSE WOMEN ARE SO HOT" because well.. its just not needed.

I'm horrible at writing large well made posts like D, Poly and Yori can. So I'm sorry i can't just smash everything with a solid wall of logical text. But I'm doing my best.

I just think you need to settle down wisdom. We are all equals in the hive. We don't need to kick and scream and shout to get people to know who we are. Just let things progress. Post about on topic things and everything runs nice and smooth

[Dangeresque]

Daaaaaw, shucks, I'm flattered!

However Loplod, he did say it was a rant. A rant without a loud, obvious opinion is like vanilla icecream without something put on it to get rid of it's boring...ness. I'd say he's quite entitled to a rant about something that's up his goat*. We all are.

THE CARNIFEX WAS MY FAVORITE UNIT. IT LOOKED SO AWESOME THAT IT GOT ME INTO THE GAME. IT WAS MY FIRST PURCHASE. YOU COULD HAVE WROTE SOME DECENT RULES FOR IT, MISTER CRUD-ARSE, INSTEAD OF THE HALF BAKED OVERCOSTED CRACK-HEAP IT IS NOW!!

See? The extent you wish to be involved is no different to a regular post. Agree, disagree, post an opinion. Rinse repeat.

* Derivative of "what's gotten up your goat?", which is itself a derivative of "What's gotten your goat?" simply because I misheard it and have it so ingrained that even the truth can't stop me!

[logic79]

I feel kind of guilty now, as I was the one that started the last discussion on here about religion. I asked a question which was discussed by the Hive in an adult way and a very interesting discussion and exchange of opions was the result. I did however ask for the thread to be shut down before it turned into a flame war.

It’s very difficult to have an open exchange of ideas on an internet forum of any kind as text is prone to be misread or the tone of the text misunderstood. Personally, I saw the original post as being dangerously close to an attack on religion. Having gone back and read it several times since, I can see that I had misjudged the tone.

I also think that one person over reacted to the original post and started to personally attack Wisdom. Others had questioned the need for this post beforehand without attacking him. On the flip side, I also think that Wisdom reacted badly. You can’t post a rant about sexuality and religion and not expect backlash. I find that typing a response in a word document, spellchecking and re reading it generally gives me enough time to cool down and question if it is really necessary before I then copy and paste it onto the forum. I think special mention should go to Kingin for getting the thread back on track and turning it into the discussion that I think Wisdom had originally hoped for.

Loplod, I disagree, I don’t think this turned into a giant flame war… but admit that it got pretty damn close. Also, it isn’t a case of everyone agreeing with you and not Wisdom. Most of the points raised here don’t actually take sides. The posts that actually deal with the theme of the original post are member’s personal takes on why people or religion may have trouble excepting homosexuality.

Wisdom, I don’t think that using You Tube to find answers to these types of questions is wise for 2 reasons.
1) You can find hate videos for just about anything on there
2) These videos don’t tend to last very long as offensive ones are often quickly removed.

If you really want to find real opinions I would suggest doing a Google search and visiting websites dedicated to the stuff. However, you would probably only end up making yourself feel sick and angry with the vile and hatred you will read and unless you are doing research for college work, I really don’t see the need to do that to yourself.

I still personally don’t understand the reason you felt the need to rant. You admit in your opening statement that you’re original goal was to go onto You Tube and find hundreds of Homophobic videos. In the next line you admitted that you couldn’t find any. So why continue? If you are genuinely interested in learning about the views of the Christian belief system on any subject, I really don’t think You Tube is the ideal place to conduct your research.

[Tyrantor]

Don't feel bad Logic, that thread was awesome. It was solid gold.

[Aux]

This computer doesn't have spellcheck and I have a few minutes before my next class, go with it.

---

Wisdom, if you wish to have this topic reopened, simply PM another mod. Don't make a new topic discussing the same things. You guys managed to not make it an outright flame war, which I applaud. These are very volitile subjects for most people. A combination of religion, sexuality and personal values/society's norms? Dangerous grounds indeed!

Thank you Logic, Tyrantor, Dangeresque, and Loplod for contributing to the topic. Also thanks to Wisdom for understanding other users points/not ignoring comments and responding back in a orderly way. It started as a rant, and progressed to a discussion. Otherwise, this thread seems to be nearing it's end and I've decided to lock it for now. (Had a class cancelled so I actually had some free time to check TTH).

I don't really have an opinion on the subject at hand. My parents are strict Catholics/ They go to church every Sunday. it was how I was raised. They really didn't seem to ahve a problem with my disintrest in religion. I simply stopped going to church regularly when I was around 15. I'll still drive/go with them to church on occassion, but I'm not compelled to go. You could say I'm an aethiest, but in reality... I simply don't care for the idea/lifestyle of religion. It doesn't effect my life. I go to school all week, I work, I hang out with friends, go to the gym, and play some 40k when I have time. It doesn't fit into my lifestyle or my personal values/beliefs. In terms of homosexuality? I know a few gay guys. Kid I grew up with on my block is gay. I continued to hang out with him occassionally, my opinion didn't change. The only thing I have somewhat of a problem is individuals who blatantly express their sexuality.

My thought process goes along the lines of "You're gay? Good for you! I don't really care, why did you inform me?"

It's your life, you live it how you want it. We have all these religious problems/conflicts with ideas and beliefs BECAUSE people FORCE IT ONTO OTHERS. If you keep to yourself, problems don't arise. "The guy amazingaethist on utube talked bad about my christian roots and religion herp derp I need to gather a group of bible brothers and smash him in his comments on his oh so evil youtube video". He makes money off it it. Shock value. He doesn't care. More comments? Great for him. Other users say "Oh look at these bible kids he baited" and respond with scathing comments back to them. Back and forth.

Crusades? Religious Wars? Look at a history book. Most conflicts are about RELIGION/Someone has a different view then someone else. I can go on and on about this but I have class.