Dark Reapers

[lowlygaunt]

Ok still working on my Eldar Ranger army, and my plan is to use Dark Reapers in it, as to me they seem to fit the long range sniperish role, sure, not stealthy, but long range pin point precision role. Ok the real reason is I have them and want to use them! Ok that said, I am aware that a unit size of 5 max means they are serious shooty bait, my hope is a farseer with guide and fortune will make them more viable. What I want to see here are the arguments for the Exarchs 2 weapons. He will have fast shot, so his choices are; (fast shot is added in)
one that is heavy 3, stregnth 4, ap3, blast. 3 ap 3 blast templates, with guide on him sounds very dangerous indeed! Doubly so if I can get my other farseer to doom the unit he shoots at.
two, an eldar missile launcher that either shoots 2 strength 8, ap 3 shots or 2 strength 4 ap 4 blast templates. Less usefull against troops, but still useful! And this allows him an anti-tank role, at the loss of the rest of his squads shots.
Anyone have an argument either way? Currently I am leaning toward the first, as 3 blast templates, say getting 1 for sure and 2 partials or 2 for sure and 1 partial is 6-7 guys getting an AP 3 shot, add doom and it seems very useful. Throw in the other 4 with doom and thats another 6 hits at AP 3. This unit could on average rolling with doom wipe 10 SM's in one volley (then of course they die horribly to a massive retaliation. . remember, they will be re-rolling to hit rolls, and failed saves.)

[graveaccomplice]

If I remember correctly, one of the exarch weapons is a 'guess' ranged weapon. Doesn't that mean indirect fire/barrage rules? No rolling BS, no need for line of site?

[koran]

Yeah the tempest launcher (I think thats what the first one is called) is a guess range weapon.... So you dont roll to hit but the amount of scattering means your probably unlikely to hit as many as youve estimated (remembering it counts as a barage so you dont place all three). Its possible you could scatter 6 and hit nothing.... Generally I see them hit 3-4... rarely more. Against a marine thats only 2 wounds.... The missile launcher with guide can do about the same against a marine and can normally get more hits against guard and stuff than the random scatter does. And its better against tanks. Unless yo plan to shoot alot at units you cant see (wasting the other 4 dark reapers) I would advise you to go for the missile launcher.

[hivefleetsurt]

One eldar player in my club takes the tempest launcher w/ crack shot instead of fast shot which gives no covers saves and allows re-roll on wounds. He regularly takes out a squad of marines in cover on average every 3 turns with the rest of the dark reapers being able to see the unit too. So the tempest launcher does have its' uses.

[koran]

Now that is a good use.... Using the tempest launcher to ignore caver saves is a plan against marines...

[lowlygaunt]

Koran, why do you think i do not place all three? A barrage weapons places as many templates as the barrage consists of, in this case 3, I think, but not 100% sure. I place the first, roll its location, and then place the other two touching the edge of the first, according to the arrow on a scatter dice roll, if I roll a hit I get to place it touching the edge as I wish, err don't I?

Hmmm, someone refresh me on the "guess" weapon rules. The only guessing is wether or not it is in range or not right? And then I roll the scatter dice and a d6? So it hits 1/3, and scatter 2/3 an average of 3.5 ". So if I place it correctly I should be able to make a scatter of less than 3" not matter on the first template (remember, the center hole on a balst tmeplat must be over a model, but not centered over the model if i remember the rule/faq correctly). Than I place the next two templates off of the first according to the arrow on two more scatter dice correct? So that I end up with two additional blast templates edge on the first? Hmm my hit chances seem good. if I can place the first blast template so that a 3" scatter still gets targets that means it actualy hits 1/3+ (50% on the d6) or 2/3 of the time (same as a 3 BS). Guide allows me to re-roll to hit, which I believe allows me to re-roll the scatter dice? And I hit 1/3 with each of the other templates in the barrage? Hmmm, this does make it tough to decide what will be more effective.
Thanks for the input guys. Crack shot is tempting, for the re-roll wounds ability.

[coredump]

I agree with what Lowly has said.

Except I don't play that a reroll to hit allows reroll of scatter.

[lowlygaunt]

Thanks Coredump, I was hoping you would see this thread and help out. I also just re-read the guide power, and it does not say anything about re-rolling the scatter dice. There is something that allows some ordnance weapon to re-roll it, but since this does not specifically say that I think a fair interpretation is that it does not grant this.
Makes the choice between the missile launcher and tempest launcher tougher. Maybe i really want two units of 5 dark reapers. . . (ouch is that expensive)

[carnogaunt]

My suggestion: Don't glue on the Exarch's arms just yet. Play a few games with both configurations and see for yourself which one works for you.

[koran]

Sorry, by what I meant by "place" was that you dont get to choose the position of each template.

For example if you used multiple frag missiles you would place each one to hit the maximum amount of models, with barrage you place the first one this way then (as you said) scatter them to touch the sides of the original template. I was just pointing out that you will probably hit less with the barrage.

[lowlygaunt]

Ah, now your post makes sense Koran, thanks for pointing it out to, |I WAS forgetting that it was a Guess weapon. Carno is right, i will need to try it both ways, or use my extra 200points for a second unit,with an exarch with each. That scares me, I am generaly a mixed army type of player, and do not like putting too many of my eggs in one basket.

[graveaccomplice]

Throw in a farseer with Guide so you can re-roll the scatter.

[lowlygaunt]

He is in there Grave, I guess I explained that in my list posted in Eldar ranger army, but my calculations include re-rolls for guide, but there is some debate on wether or not guide allows you to re-roll a scatter dice. See some of the above posts for the conversation including him and about the scatter roll. Bleh I forgot my codex to look at it.

[coredump]

My reservation was I don't believe something allowing a re-roll to hit includes getting to re-roll a scatter die.

Guide, as it turns out, specifically allows both. So you are good to go.

[lowlygaunt]

Hmmm, thanks Coredump, I also just re-read my codex. That tempest launcher looks worth it. I am going with it. Hopefully I can place 3 blast templates on a unit with Doom in play and really make someone cry. Sacrificing some vehicle kill, but you have to take some risks!