Terra's Halo 6th Configuration

[zangetsu]

List Limit-1750
ADV-Honor your Wargear
DAV-Have Faith in Suspicion

HQ- Master Commander, Power Sword, Bolt Pistol=91

Elites-
Devastator Squad- 7 Man, 4 Lascannons, Infriltrate=263
Devastator Squad- 7 Man, 4 Lascannons, Infriltrate=263
Devastator Squad- 7 Man, 4 Heavy Bolters, Infriltrate=183

Troops-
Scout Squad, 6 Man, 6 Sniper Rifles=110
Tactical Squad, 6 Man, Heavy Bolter=95

Fast Attack-
Lanspeeder Tornado=80
Two Lanspeeder Tornados=160
Assualt Squad- 5 Man=110

Heavy Support-
Predator Anihilator, Side Sponsons Heavy Bolters=130
Predator Anihilator, Side Sponsons Heavy Bolters=130
Predator Anihilator, Side Sponsons Heavy Bolters=130

Is this better than the previous ones?

[yoritomo]

It's getting better. You're still a min/maxed, static fire army; but you're a better min,maxed/static fire army.

You seem really attached to those elite devestators, why is that? That's over 700 points in three small squads. Sure they have infiltrate, but that doesn't work 1/3 of the time. Besides, I can deal with a bunch of 7 man squads no problem.

There is a great fallacy when fighting tyranids. Everyone thinks that you have to shoot tyranids to win. This is not the case at all. If you really want to beat tyranids you have to use their strength against them and counter their advantages.

Let me tell you, 20 hormagaunts on the charge is scary. 20 hormagaunts getting charged, not so scary. What does that tell you? If you can negate the charge bonus tyranids become much more manageable in close combat. That's the kind of thing you have to use to your advantage. And that is what this list is lacking.

[zangetsu]

What about genestealers? The'll kill us in close combat.

[Haraio [MALAL]]

This looks like a good list for shooting, but it will be completely mauled in close combat. Lictors will be able to keep your Devastator Squads occupied. If I was facing this, I would be taking three Lictors and lots of spore mines for fast attack. Due to the Pheromone trail, most of those 6 units would be arriving second round, and would be able to seriously hamper your firepower. Sure, you have lots of firepower to take out Synapse and tanks, but how would you fare against a shooty army, like Tau?

Nice min-maxed army. It will totally crush some opponents, and other times you will be one getting crushed ^^

[yoritomo]

zangetsu said:

What about genestealers? The'll kill us in close combat.

OK;

Let me tell you, 20 hormagaunts 10 genestealers on the charge is scary. 20 hormagaunts 10 genestealers getting charged, not so scary. What does that tell you? If you can negate the charge bonus tyranids become much more manageable in close combat.

Normal marines will beat genestealers in combat every time if you can keep the number of rending hits down.

[Haraio [MALAL]]

Genestealers are not scary to face in combat. As long as they don't get too many rending hits, your Space Marines are safe. With some good hits against their WS6, you can crush their brood as they charge you. Or better yet, as Yoritomo said, charge them^^

But my guess is that this list would die horribly if it had to face an All-Stealers army^^

[zangetsu]

How would you recomend fixing that?

[Voice of Reason]

why don't you list your entire model collection? this way there might be a better idea of what there is to work with.

also:
you will NEVER find a "perfect list". over time, rules change, your opponent army lists change, your understanding of your own army and the units it contains will change. You have to understand that your army will grow with you, as you come to understand it, and how to use it better, as you learn to counter different threats with different kinds of units.

imagine for a moment:
let's say you settle on a "perfect" list tomorrow. you take it out and play against some opponents. you win a few, you lose a few, and then you encounter an army of say, 96 Spinegaunts. the wave of rattling, hissing hordelings overrun every defense you can throw up, your tanks are blasted to pieces by zoanthropes, and you can't shoot enough to really make much of a difference.

so there you sit, after turn 6 and you realize you have 2 choices:
1. moan "why me? oh, your army is so unfair. I can't do anything. I hate my opponent, I hate this army, I hate this game. I had a great list!"
~~perfectly modern thing to do. the fault is not yours, it's your opponent's for defeating you. you can shuffle the blame neatly onto someone else with minimal effort and leave it at that, continuing to feel good about yourself. Nevermind how faulty the reasoning behind it is.. I mean, you are playing a game that rewards you for defeating your opponent as completely as possible.

orrr.....

2. sit down and think about the game, wondering what you could have done to prevent such a horrific defeat. You realize that almost all the damage they did was on the round they charged. 32 spine gaunts had 32 shooting attacks, then another 64 assault attacks. You realize that if you could somehow prevent that shoot/charge phase from happening, you'd be in much better shape. Then you hit upon the idea... if you had a squad of assault marines with a chaplain, that would really put a dent in those units, because with their 12" move and 6" assault they could TOTALLY get the jump on those gaunts PLUS you'd have the charge and the Chaplain's Litanies of Hate ability going for you. if you don't defeat all 32 gaunts on your charge, then you will likely do so on the following round, but they'll be protected from too many incoming attacks because of pile in rules..

BRILLIANT!

"but wait," you think, "what about the other 64 gaunts in the army.." then you realize there are loads of other options. Flamers, Terminators, assault scouts, 2 chaplains, or a Librarian to block the high-end warp blast, and much, much more.

you see, there are far more options to explore than just bunker marines.

[zangetsu]

I appreciate your help. My only concern is after all mygames 20-ish I only have one win and that's when we didn't know the rules. I have been trying to devlop a good/ great list to my style (sit and shoot, wrong army I know).

[serif]

Here's my advice... your two squads of anti tank marines could be made cheaper... for 26 points you could have essentially the same anti-tank weapon. If you turn those lascannons into missle launchers and then give them tank hunters and infiltrate, you have your s9 anti tank infiltrating weapons but for 30% less cost.

To do that you take Honour Your Wargear and Suffer not the Heretic as your traits. over two squads that gives you 60 more points to work with. Also, if you're doing non-codex marines, taking even numbers in your squads is always better.

Your predators have an identity issue, do they shoot at infantry or tanks? you already have two deadly and dedicated anti tank squads, do you really need that much more? If you turn them into destructors, they will satisfy much of your anti infantry shooting needs.

Then you can eliminate the heavy bolter devs, beef out your asssault squad, give your tac squad a razorback and maybe flamer instead of heavy bolter. This would make your list much more fun to play....Oh, and if you either replace the master with a jump chaplain for the the assault squad or just add him in from the points saved elsewhere, he will add a HUGE punch to your assault squad.

Oh and here's a hint with a chappy. He is already equipped with a power weapon. The space marine codex uses two different phrases when it comes to models buying weapons, it says "replace" or it says "purchase" The chaplain may purchase two weapons from the armoury without replacing his power weapon, THOUGH, he may only ever use two at any given time. So if you buy him a cc weapon and a storm bolter, he is as highly effective weapon wise as a chaplain can be.

I know that we want to win games, but it means nothing to me if I win and all I've done is stand there and drop dice on the table....I really don't care if I've won, ive spent 2 hours throwing dice and not much else.

Some of these changes you may not like, but I can almost guaruntee that they will make your list much more fun to play with.

[Voice of Reason]

zangetsu said:

I appreciate your help. My only concern is after all mygames 20-ish I only have one win and that's when we didn't know the rules. I have been trying to devlop a good/ great list to my style (sit and shoot, wrong army I know).

so sit and think over the games that you've lost. figure out why it happened. was it because he was making you roll too many armor saves? was it because he overran you with a unit in a place where you couldn't take an assault? was it because he outmaneuvered you, isolated your units and took you apart bit by bit?

serif: he's going lascannons because he needs to put down MCs with a 2+ armor save, and Missile launchers are AP 3.
also, aren't krak missiles Str 8, not Str 9?

[serif]

if his intent is fighting TMC then yes, Lascannons are better. But he hasn't said what he's shooting at most of the time. If it is tanks then yes krak missles are St8, but if the squad has tank hunters, then they are effectively s9.


Hmm... maybe a full multi-melta squad? people are surprised at their effectiveness

[sephiroth00055]

He is mostly fighting against me. I run a 1750 point Nidzilla swarmish list. Six TMCs and over one hundred gaunts. He has not actually played this list but he played one very simaler. He lost bad! He needs the help.

[Haraio [MALAL]]

6 TMCs and over a hundred gaunts? !
Post list please! I want to seeeeeeee!^^

[Voice of Reason]

easy enough to put it together:

Devil Flyrant: 196
Sniper Tyrant: 182
3x tyrant guard: 135
Elite devilfex: 114
Elite devilfex: 114
20x spinegaunts: 100
20x spinegaunts: 100
20x spinegaunts: 100
20x spinegaunts: 100
21x spinegaunts: 105
21x spinegaunts: 105
Sniperfex: 198
Sniperfex: 198
Totals:
Points: 1747 points
Models: 131
HQ 29%
Elite 13%
Troops 35%
Fast 0%
Heavy 23%