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Post by Halollet on May 15, 2017 20:44:44 GMT
So those new marines are just... well... whelming. Not over or under, with no special or heavy weapons they don't seem all that threatening. I think they'll work as a clean up crew, taking out the last models/wounds of a unit and they have the wounds to stick around till the end of the game. But they don't seem over or under powered. Power 6 for them compared to power 8 for a sorcerer and 4 rubic marines with armour ignoring bolters and a psyker that can dish out mortal wounds, seems... Well, this whole power things seems rather ... eh. I don't think I'll be using it.
Tau seem OP AF as always. This makes me happy and sad as I play Nids and Tau. The ability to jump back and keep shooting from Crisis suits as well as the storm surge is just... yeck. I agree that they'll probably mostly fold under CC with the Ld test at the end of the turn, but still. Looks like Tau will still hit on 4+ as the +1 to hit with the storm surge special rule brings it up to 3+. Marker lights... I think got nerfed? Before I could pop two of them down and and hit on 2+. Now it's 4+ with a reroll 1. That seems worse. Though, they're going to have a lot of guns... so many guns... 10 on the storm surge, 3 on a crisis suit, and following suit (lol) the commander looks to have up to 4 and he was hitting on a 2+.... *shivers*
Couple of hopeful tidbits through. Storm surge can fire at multiple targets, so can Leman Russes (Question answered in comments), so I would hope that our MCs can splits fire too. Carnifex might be a gun boat with Bio Plasma and 2 more guns. Stealth looks to give -1 to hit. So harder to hit lictors with added armour from cover? I hope Shrikes get access to that Fly rule, would make them a jack of all trades with CC and shooting. The Savior Protocols, Tyrant Guard will probably have some similar I guess?
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Post by Halollet on May 12, 2017 18:46:33 GMT
Read through the comments and someone mentioned about Tervigons. If there's no more free models, then how do these guys work? Are they rhinos now for a unit of gaunts? Maybe we can chose to spawn hormagaunts and termagants? GW had a vague response of course but it will be interesting to see.
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Post by Halollet on May 10, 2017 20:24:58 GMT
Forgot about combo plasma... Yikes, that's going to be scary. 4 shots from one dude!
Er... Storm Ravens, twin linked lascannon, multimelta, and hurricane bolters... That thing will melt stuff!
My Grey Knights are looking interesting. I ran them with sisters and I fielded a landraider, landraider crusader, and a storm Raven. That's a lot of fire power now.... Immolators and combimeltas on top. Yeah, shooting looks king right now. Hopefully they'll show us some melee weapons to balance this madness out!
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Post by Halollet on May 10, 2017 15:29:28 GMT
Twin linked now just double guns? 4 Lascannon shots off a land raider? 24 Devourer shots off a MC? Wow. Just thinking what else; Smart Missile System off a Tau Hammerhead? 8 shots that don't need line of sight? Sisters' Immolator! Double Multimelta! ... ooh... at 12" that thing can do 4d6 and discard the lowest two by the looks of it. Combi weapons, did not see that coming but so happy about that! Condemmer Boltgun might actually see some use! And more melta guns for all my sisters! Question about the battle cannon; So if its a heavy d6, that means you would have to roll to hit for the number of shots? So assuming guard still hit on 4+, 3.5 is the average number of shots so only 1.75 hits? Then you would roll to wound, say against T6 so that's only a 3+ to wound, so 1.16 wounds. Then would you get an armour save against that wound or do you roll for the Damage next? If armour then only 0.77% chance to deal D3 wounds, averaging 2. Is that right cause that seems terrible? Yes it COULD deal 18 wounds but it looks like most of the time you'll only scratch the paint. And d6 hits on a mob is so much worse than ye old template! Gaunts don't give a (please do not swear) about that thing! Might actually be scarier for our medium units, Zoanthropes, Warriors, etc. Terminators too actually, any smaller multiwound unit. If you can get through a terminators 4+ save you have a 66% chance just to end the guy.
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Post by Halollet on May 10, 2017 11:12:05 GMT
For Tyrant guard, I don't see why they wouldn't be an upgrade on the Hive Tyrant to make a unit. We might get one of the exceptions; us and guard. I doubt they would break up the company command and platoon command squads for example.
As for Snipers, being able to target characters like that is just... wow. I think I need to get myself some ratlings. I just wonder if Nids are going to get anything that can snipe. Hive guard maybe?
As for taking down a Leman Russ, I wish they would show us what some of the Tyranid weapons will do; especially the heavy venom cannon and rending claws. Nids were terrible at a straight on fight against heavy armour, now with the inability to fly around to shoot those tank's asses, how are nids going to deal with an army of essentially wraithlords?
And that's a lot of shots from guardsmen. I'm both excited and worried as I play guard as well. But a mob dealing 50 wounds to a gaunt unit? Yikes.
Hopefully they'll make an article about universal special rules like fleet, infiltrate, stealth, etc. And one about mission and how to win a game too so we have some context for all these rules.
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Post by Halollet on May 8, 2017 22:48:31 GMT
Being as you couldn't target specific models in a unit, there have been hidden heavy weapons everywhere for a long time. Heavy weapons generally wounding MC on a 3+ instead of a 2+ is good. Well, yes and no. With my guard I usually put my heavy weapons in heavy weapon squads to free up the shooting from my infantry squads. FRFSRF is really good when you have 30 guys doing it! Now I can mix them together for safety without loosing any firepower! ... Mind you, having said that, I haven't seen guard orders so that idea might be short lived. We should see less min maxing. Like no more squads of 5 marines with a plasma cannon. And taking a multimelta in my sisters unit sounds viable now! I know my lists are going to be different with that split fire rule for sure!
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Post by Halollet on May 8, 2017 22:03:07 GMT
I'm surprised that no one has pointed out a problem for us. There's going to be hidden heavy weapons everywhere. No wonder the chaos article was so happy about marines and havocs. I'm looking at my guard differently now as I run all infantry with a baneblade so lascannons and melta guns everywhere buried in a sea of dudes!
What really has me interested are warriors. Like how many wounds do they have now? 3, 4, 6? Is there instant death still? If not, then they can eat lascannon shots! O.o They're really the only nid unit that I can think of that can make use of that split fire rule too. And they're tougher against str 6-7 weapons if their T remains the same, their armour is only negated by lascannon level AP in the open. Small arm fire would probably be a better choice but if they get an armour boost in cover then that's going to be a lot of shots needed. Plus they can be a mix unit with CC weapons and shooting (I REALLY want to know what rending claws do!) meaning they can assault and then shoot anyone that tries to fall back!
I'm optimistic about these guys!
I also wonder what a fex's str is, I wouldn't be surprised if it was like 12 or something!
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Post by Halollet on May 5, 2017 19:28:58 GMT
Well, hopefully they'll count Tryannocytes as DT. I doubt they'll be free, I REALLY hope they're not free. No, but the way I read it you can take dedicated transports for Bloodthirsters and Leman Russ battle tanks. They may not be free, but they could be plentiful. Um... yes, that is the way its written there. There will probably be some kinda rule that stops that, but then again, maybe not? Speaking of guard, I wonder how that'll work since 1 troops choice can be like what, 12 units? Interesting. Them making a flyer section in the chart took me by surprize actually. I wondered what selection Flyrants would be in and I checked the Facebook comments and found this; So FMC are their own beast apparently! So there's that to look forward to... or panic about. Limiting Flyers is something I'm actually happy about. No more Valkyrie or Heldrake spam! IF, as we don't know yet, Flyrants will still be in the HQ slot, that means we can have 3 flyrants, 2 Crones, and 3 units of gargoyles for winged death with just one force chart. So... that's probably a thing. We'll have to wait for the FMC article or the full rules of course! Saw this too; So... Nidzilla list anyone? And this too; And more coming down the pipe!
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Post by Halollet on May 2, 2017 21:47:03 GMT
Lot of things we don't know that can change a lot. Like assaulting from transports, assault after deepstrike/reserves, flanking, assault after running, how far something falls back, does falling back to the table edge still destroy them? Does falling back into an enemy unit wipe them out? Trygons and lictors could be used to keep things from falling back with their deep strike shenanigans if that is the case. Can a unit fall back if the enemy is blocking their way back to the table edge? Meaning assaulting from the back might block that. Lots and lots of questions left to be answered.
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Post by Halollet on May 2, 2017 18:44:58 GMT
The stats you're basing your calculations on are profiles that do not exist as far as we're concerned. You're using old math and new rules. True, but here's what we know; Overwatch is 6+. Cover adds to Armour. AP is gone and light weapons like bolters and flamers don't affect armour. (it takes a lascannon to negate a 4+ save) Strength and toughness still interact with no wound on X like AoS. Stats like T4 and a 3+ save for marines seem to be carried over from the last edition so we can assume we'll see more of that with other units so I don't think it would be unreasonable to think that gaunts will be T3 6+ and stealers T4 5+ still. And I doubt they would change a pulse rifle so it would wound a marine/stealer on a 2+ so they're probably still str 5, wounding on 3s. So while you are right, there is enough info already to paint a pretty good picture. Even if assaulting units don't get cover when assaulting, which would suck, Bolter Fire doesn't negate genestealer and shrike armour any more! So that's 33% more guys that will make it past overwatch and into assault! Yeah, but you literally paint yourself into a corner in the blood of your enemies. So unless the mission is nothing but a frag fest, the shooty army that keeps falling back will give up board control to the assaulting army and lose the game. So yeah, guard and tau and fall back all they damn well please! I'll be on the objectives with a few Lictors to just win the game!
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Post by Halollet on May 2, 2017 18:06:43 GMT
There are entirely too many unanswered questions and variables to draw any valid conclusions at this point. yes, but for both good or ill. We have no idea what things like fleet, adrenal glands, and wings do yet so things could still get better! But I made CC work in 7th and even though there are some problems, so far, overall, this is just making my playstyle better! It would take some nasty kick in the pants to deter my optimism at this point.
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Post by Halollet on May 2, 2017 16:35:39 GMT
Okay so... this... changes things. My mind is going crazy at the moment.
Okay, so some big plusses for Nids. Lash whips break the sequence so that sounds like attackers don't get to swing first against nids that have them. That's huge for shrikes and CC Tyrants! Terminators charge your Tyrant but he gets to eat them first! Bonus for Hive guard that have them too I guess? Walking CC Tyrant anyone?
That 3" move to get another unit in 1" of it is terrifying! And forcing their front line to fall back and CLUMP UP with their back line will be deadly for them! So easy to trap multiple units your next turn! Hormaguants hit the front line, force them to fall back, hormies get shot, but shrikes/raveners could charge in and snag multiple units easily if they're all falling back! This is far scarier than the d6 consolidation of the past. We get to do it right after we charge? HAHAHA! Oh... my guard are (please do not swear).
I also guess that if shooting can make a hole in the front line you can threaten any unit 4" behind the one you're charging too. Hormaguants hitting the front line can spill through the cracks into other units that didn't get to overwatch them! (minus tau) So this falling back maneuver can be a death sentence against a full assault list!
Swarmlord hits on 2+! Woo! So... wait, if swarmy has tyrant guard with lashwhips, then does that mean he gets to go first in combat no matter what? (assuming you pick him first of course) ....Plus shoving him forward will make him be able to try and stop physic powers within 24" of him, plus what ever shadow of the warp does... oh geez... um. This guy is adding up! ...He's a scary little bug now isn't he?
The other thing I'm hoping for is that there are going to be objectives which means the enemy force has to move forward no matter what. meaning that fall back tactic cuts out 2 turns of movement. They fall back one turn and then take another turn to move back to where they were. In a game that's usually 5-6 turns, that's a big chunk of their overall movement they have to spend in order to shoot their attackers.
The other thing I noticed is that flamers don't ignore cover! And cover is something that needs to be thought of as well. Assuming that nids can charge from cover, then their armour gets a bonus! So, let's take 10 stealers charging from cover into a clump of 4 full firewarrior units so 48 guys; 6s to hit, 3s to wound, but the stealers would have a 3+ armour? 5+ base plus 2 for cover? And they're all in rapid fire range.
96 shots - 16 hits - 10.6 wounds - 3.5 failed armour saves. Is that right?
There's also venomthropes that give cover so that might help hormaguants? So same senario, 2s to wound and a 4+ save; 6+ plus venom
96 shots - 16 hits - 13.3 wounds - 6.6 failed saves. That's... nothing. Not to a brood of 30 that can charge and sweep into everything!
Dudes... I think assault is viable!
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Post by Halollet on May 1, 2017 18:42:11 GMT
Yeah... this... isn't looking that good for assault. I have NO idea why they didn't make charge range Movement+1d6. I read over the comments and everyone seems to be crying foul with this 2d6 and infinite overwatch. I wouldn't be surprised if this will be one of the first rules updated. The 40k guy kept saying that the melee phase will compensate for this random BS so I guess we'll have more to go on tomorrow. My only hope is that if you wipe something in melee you can consolidate into melee with another unit. On another note, I'm getting a whiff of a pattern. I re-read the shooting rules and pistols can ONLY shoot at whatever is closest what ever phase. And smite can only target what's closest as well. So, if this kind of pattern continues, then movement becomes very tactical and termigant screens become really good. Might explain why moving and shooting heavy weapons is only a -1 to hit. Had another thought. Pyrovores. Their flamer weapon will probably deal 1d6 auto hitting shots, so dropping those guys out of a pod, 3 of them can do 3d6 hits to something? Though I can't imagine a target that would be worth it right now... Hm. Just a thought. So far, 8th seems to give the same feel as 7th. My Tau are broken and my nids are getting the shaft... I'm still waiting for some kind of nugget of joy that'll make my Haruspex viable... I WANT MY MARINE EATING TENTACLE MONSTER DAMNIT!
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Post by Halollet on Apr 30, 2017 2:32:51 GMT
Chiming in here on assault and leaving assault.
So if I read it right. If a unit leaves melee, then the other unit gets to shoot them right? So this would be a boon for Shrikes, Raveners, Fexes, etc. A mix of melee and shooting has benefits. So raveners with devourers can assault but can throw a fist full of dice at anyone that runs. And yes, you can walk away from a fex, but he gets to shoot you with a plasma cannon if you do!
Sucks for stealers and hormagaunts though.
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Post by Halollet on Mar 28, 2017 2:35:58 GMT
With 8th edition around the bend, I'd like to give 7th a little send off or 2. So I'm looking for ideas on lists to make that will be fun to play, even if I get wiped 3rd turn! Whole idea is to have some fun and maybe I might pull off a win! Doesn't matter! So throw the whole 'this isn't viable' mindset out the window and help me go nuts! But, I also need to use the models I have, though I can proxy a few. 1850 points! Let's do this!
I was thinking of using all 99 genestealers in different formations with Deathleaper's formation. Or, maybe a nidzilla list? Trying to fit all those guys in one 1850 might be a bit tight! Maybe a list with 27 Shrikes in 3 units cause why not? 3 Tervigons with lots of little guys! Yeah! I actually missed the edition where that was a thing....
Throw me some ideas!
HQs Flyrants x3 Tyrant Guard x2
Troops Warriors x24 Genestealer x95 Broodlord x4 Termie with Flesh x33 Termie with Dev x21 Termie with Spine x25 Hormagaunts x107 Ripper Swarms x11
Elite Zoanthropes x6 Neurothrope x1 Venomthrope x3 Malanthrope x1 Lictors x4
Fast Attack Shrikes x6 Raveners x8
Heavy Support Trygon/Mawloc x2 Melee Fex x3 Dakka Fex x2 Biovore x3 Tervigon/Tyrannofex x3 Exocrine/Haruspex x1
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