Listbuilding detachments with BoB/CA2019

[acehilator]

With the general forum and the threads there being all over the place, it might be a good idea to get a bit more focused now.

I'll start with a new version of the sweaty Kronos Spearhead.

Neurotrophe (for Synapse coverage and the new Kronos-exclusive Symbiostorm power)

2x Exocrine with Dermic Symbiosis (can start one in cover and move out with Symbiotic Devastation)

1x Biovore (for Deepest Shadow shenanigans, and to fill the third Heavy Support slot)

[6x Hive Guard (optional, depending on the rest of the army)]

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440

[698]

Symbiostorm on Exocrines is really good because of their +1 to hit, proccing extra hits on 5s. Even if both Exocrines die, the optional blob of HG is still a really good target for it.

Options:

- adding a Tcyte for the second Exocrine

Variations:

Making it a Battalion instead. Unsure on second HQ though.

Malantrophe worth it to guard two Exos?

Use HVC/dual DS Walkrant + Mala to make the Mala more efficient?

Tyranid Prime for cheap but useless?

Second Neuro which can just float to the frontlines and shoot brain bullets?

And 3x 3 Rippers obviously.

[topaxygourouni]

I see a Jormungandr brigade:

Malanthrope
Hive Tyrant, Stranglethorn cannon , 2 x Deathspitters, parasite relic (always max damage of shots)
Broodlord

6 x 3 rippers

Lictor
Hive Guard x 6 (physiology: +2 in cover OR ignore ap-1 and ap-2)
Maleceptor

3 x Raveners
Mucolid spore mine
Mucolid spore mine

Mawloc
Acid spray Tyrannofex
Exocrine

Tyrannocyte


Raveners bring in the Hive Guard, Cyte brings in the Exocrine. Maleceptor gives -1 str to enemy shooting, together with -1 to hit and +1 to armor saves should make most of our big stuff pretty durable. Maleceptor also casts the new Jorm spell, exo + hive guard get full rerolls when they come in. Units that are out in the open are the Acidfex (2+ armor, T8, -1 to hit, -1 str incoming shooting) and the Hive Tyrant who can hide and has 2+/4++. Mawloc can do plenty of Mortal Wounds, lictor will help if we need to deny overwatch. Broodlord can also come with the raveners.

I would pair this with a spearhead of Kronos:

Neurothrope (relic: Ravenous Barb)

Exocrine (physiology: 5++)
Biovore
Biovore

Neurothrope casts the Kronos power on the exocrine (exploding 5's and 6's). Exo starts hidden, moves up with strat, gets the spell, unleashes hell. Also has 5++.

Probably it's a bit over 2000 and needs a little tweaking, but it looks like a solid start with a very powerful turn 2.

Also gives 16 CP which should be enough to last for 3 turns (up to turn 3: 6 CP for maleceptor strat, 4 cp for hive guard, 3 CP for exocrine 3 damage, 1 CP for exocrine to move up, (1 CP to lictor charge if needed), 1 CP to mawloc up the mortal wounds.

[No One]

I dunno, seems a bit disjointed? Expending all the resources (two mals, strat, Jorm) to protect stuff on the ground. Then you just go and dump some of it in reserve anyway? Like, I think if you're going for big MCs protected on the ground, go more all in on that. If you're using a Jorm (or Kronos) DS drop, don't hard commit on ground MCs as well.

I think there's some play to be had, but...dunno.


Anyway, there's a couple of concepts I'm toying with:

DS stuff, use AG and strats to get in.
e.g. Behemoth
Triple flyrant (one AG relic, one psychic relic)

30 gargs with AG (or trygon+30 horms instead of gargs and a flyrant if Index not allowed)

Edit:

Comes out to ~800 pts. Add some GSC for psychics, maybe some hive guard for something on board that can (hopefully) survive and gaunts for objectives. Of course, it still runs into the whole issue with heavy points in DS: go 2nd and if you've got too much useful stuff on board, have fun playing 1k DS into 2k normal. Hive guard should be fine for that, some sacrificial gaunts, but unless you like playing 500 pts down, needs something else. Possibly Cult blips for a bounced saw squad or something? Dunno: feels like it's so close to viable.

Lot of potential hitting power with +1 wound flyrants doing >8 wounds just with MRC+toxin. Add in potential 2d6" adaptation for a lot of potential play with hostages/touches on the gargs, monstrous size for increase on others. Use AG to get in with the first, then synaptic lure (and potentially hunters drive as another source) to bring in the rest. Either massed hostage for next turn, or just kill stuff.

However, feels like way too many points of failure: AG relic is only ~77-80%, which is good but not keystone gameplan good. Even using stock cc, difficult time hostaging and not killing with 4-6 2+/3+ attacks a lot of the time unless very opportune targets, and still potentially vulnerable to counter charge. Not going to find anything with high enough value to gank together, while likely not quite survivable enough to kill something and stick around.

Also vulnerable to infiltrators/screening with -2", but at least has a play against Fliers, and can get anti-overwatch through lictors and GSC (both a tad unreliable, but together it's not terrible).

But overall, feels like basically worse GSC: in some ways way better if it worked perfectly, since MCs are so much more survivable if you can't bring optimal weapons to bear. And also better against Flyers, since you can actually charge them. But so much harder to get working, and with less scoring potential and oomph.

topaxygourouni said:

Hive Guard x 6 (physiology: +2 in cover OR ignore ap-1 and ap-2)

This I think could be a pretty good mainstay, either Kronos or Jorm depending on how much you trust terrain. Very strong against indirect and difficult to shift with most Fliers, while hopefully being able to stay out of LoS to fit into basically anything.

[nackanid]

Were thinking about ways to use the Savage Distraction. Stealers kills a unit, overrun and piles in to alot of stuff and hugging at least 1 unit. Savage Distraction gives a godd survivability to the rest of the army and stealers can't be shoot. Yes, it's only units within 6'' but it means that they can't spread out and grab objectives and stuff. If it works, you should have -2 with venomthropes or mally.

[No One]

It's even worse, unless I'm very much mistaken: it's models within 6".

[wormlord666]

Dec 2, 2019 7:50:55 GMT nackanid said:

Were thinking about ways to use the Savage Distraction. Stealers kills a unit, overrun and piles in to alot of stuff and hugging at least 1 unit. Savage Distraction gives a godd survivability to the rest of the army and stealers can't be shoot. Yes, it's only units within 6'' but it means that they can't spread out and grab objectives and stuff. If it works, you should have -2 with venomthropes or mally.

There might be a play with that. Combine with horror, mass hypnosis, and you might buy you stealers one more turn. But we will see what the wording on the strat is. I have only seen reprints of it. Stealers can have a big footprint and negg a big model like a knight with possibly -3 is huge.

[nackanid]

Dec 2, 2019 7:51:40 GMT No One said:

It's even worse, unless I'm very much mistaken: it's models within 6".

And GW does it again...

[topaxygourouni]

Dec 2, 2019 7:50:55 GMT nackanid said:

Were thinking about ways to use the Savage Distraction. Stealers kills a unit, overrun and piles in to alot of stuff and hugging at least 1 unit. Savage Distraction gives a godd survivability to the rest of the army and stealers can't be shoot. Yes, it's only units within 6'' but it means that they can't spread out and grab objectives and stuff. If it works, you should have -2 with venomthropes or mally.

Problem is that everything that can fall back, will fall back 6" and therefore be out of the range if you don't lock it up, and if you do, what's the stratagem for?

[wormlord666]

This is not another thread to be salty and complain about GW.

The big problem we have had is surving the amount of fire with high AP and not beeing able to respond in any good way.
The new things can help a little bit. Jorm spell with shooty delivery and then a possible 3d6 charge to tie up. The deep strike will help first turn survivability. I see devgaunts having play there. Rerolling hits is huge there.

Impalers going down is good. Giving HG better saves is another options. Hive guards beeing alive late game is game winning. Putting them in an egg is an option with onslought to take away negs. In my meta there are lots of eliminators hiding i ruins. So I’ll definately bring hiveguards.

I really hope the double exocrine Idea works. It should be a great marinekiller.

[nackanid]

Dec 2, 2019 8:27:57 GMT topaxygourouni said:

Dec 2, 2019 7:50:55 GMT nackanid said:

Were thinking about ways to use the Savage Distraction. Stealers kills a unit, overrun and piles in to alot of stuff and hugging at least 1 unit. Savage Distraction gives a godd survivability to the rest of the army and stealers can't be shoot. Yes, it's only units within 6'' but it means that they can't spread out and grab objectives and stuff. If it works, you should have -2 with venomthropes or mally.

Problem is that everything that can fall back, will fall back 6" and therefore be out of the range if you don't lock it up, and if you do, what's the stratagem for?

If they fall back, then they can’t shoot? If not UM, of course. For a single CP you force them to move in a way they don’t wanna move, I’ll do that every day. Forcing a bad movement is amazing in my opinion!

[nackanid]

Dec 2, 2019 8:36:42 GMT wormlord666 said:

This is not another thread to be salty and complain about GW.

The big problem we have had is surving the amount of fire with high AP and not beeing able to respond in any good way.
The new things can help a little bit. Jorm spell with shooty delivery and then a possible 3d6 charge to tie up. The deep strike will help first turn survivability. I see devgaunts having play there. Rerolling hits is huge there.

Impalers going down is good. Giving HG better saves is another options. Hive guards beeing alive late game is game winning. Putting them in an egg is an option with onslought to take away negs. In my meta there are lots of eliminators hiding i ruins. So I’ll definately bring hiveguards.

I really hope the double exocrine Idea works. It should be a great marinekiller.

Your right, sorry for the GW comment.

Onslaught helps a lot! Still, the range is a problem but maybe a Maleceptor can help with the -1S strat? T5 on the HG is very nice!

[kazetanade]

SL, Maleceptor on ground, then DS Toxicrene with 5++ adaptation, 3 Flyrants in.

Mally swings up with SL, who go hides in a corner after that. Mally charges. Flyrants and Toxicrene get their reroll charges on 3d6" and AG benefits. This is clearly overkill on MC charges, but it's a LOT of invuls in people's faces, which is where the fun is.

The one that will probably actually work better is doing that with a Flyrant, but there's an assumption that the Flyrant survives damage being on the ground, which I will never make with wings that big. We can do it potentially with a BL, although there are questions to be had about it actually working.

My main concern is IH or other broken SM Fliers, for HG and GS. TFC is an additional worry for GS. Otherwise we would have most of a working list as is already.

[kociamafia]

Dec 3, 2019 2:18:37 GMT kazetanade said:

SL, Maleceptor on ground, then DS Toxicrene with 5++ adaptation, 3 Flyrants in.

Mally swings up with SL, who go hides in a corner after that. Mally charges. Flyrants and Toxicrene get their reroll charges on 3d6" and AG benefits. This is clearly overkill on MC charges, but it's a LOT of invuls in people's faces, which is where the fun is.

The one that will probably actually work better is doing that with a Flyrant, but there's an assumption that the Flyrant survives damage being on the ground, which I will never make with wings that big. We can do it potentially with a BL, although there are questions to be had about it actually working.

My main concern is IH or other broken SM Fliers, for HG and GS. TFC is an additional worry for GS. Otherwise we would have most of a working list as is already.

Sorry, it's super early here - What is "SL" ?

[kazetanade]

Swarmlord, boss.

[kociamafia]

Dec 3, 2019 6:58:36 GMT kazetanade said:

Swarmlord, boss.

Jesus, of course. Need more coffee.