ETC Style Murder List

[blastarasta]

Battalion Kraken:


Mally
Neuro 
Brood

18 stealers
18 stealers
18 stealers
18 stealers
15 stealers

Kronos Spearhead

Neuro

19 horms

6 hive guard

Bio
Bio
Bio

Haven't play tested it yet but ill report back when I do - game plan is pretty straight forward, burn CP early with overrun & adrenal to get to the back field then farm CP back by killing characters if possible.. 

The question is does a list like this perform better than a "balanced one" one that brings many threats i.e hive tyrants, dakka fexs etc?

I like the above because if the hive guard and bios are out of LOS then any anti tank the enemy might have will be forced to shoot at stealers.

I know Mallys are up in the air at the moment especially in light of the points increase but I really need to stealers to start on the board for the most part maybe ill leave 1 or 2 in nodes so as they wont trip over themselves turn 1...

A flyer heavy list "could" hurt this list, but then again, I can fill the board with bodies denying them a place to move, forcing them into hover and if not then automatically destroyed. If they go over then they're food... the other option is of course, kill all the remaining ground units for the automatic tabling..

ETC doesn't allow duplicate detachments hence why  the above is not a double battalion but I guess I could drop a couple of stealers and make an outrider with spores and one of the HQ for 8 CP in total. 

Has anyone tried a heavy stealer like this before? what was its downfall? Its a glass cannon for sure, I know that but I imagine there isn't much that can withstand 2/3 turns of its damage output? prob triple shadow/bane/storm/hammer/lord would cause me great pain.. 

Looking for thoughts and feedback from more experienced Nid players.

Thanks 

[nidzy]

I wonder why the extras points for horms if they are hanging out with the backfield to screen? Gaunts could do this a little cheaper and nab you an extra stealer.

I am curious how this list will do against primarchs. Morty has consistently killed units of genestealers when in assault with them. Anybody do the math on how many stealer attacks it takes to kill him? Would love to see batreps of a couple games with this list.

I think 3x18 is about as many stealers as I could make happen. I am kinda jealous

[blastarasta]

Dec 22, 2017 18:33:41 GMT nidzy said:

I wonder why the extras points for horms if they are hanging out with the backfield to screen? Gaunts could do this a little cheaper and nab you an extra stealer.

I am curious how this list will do against primarchs. Morty has consistently killed units of genestealers when in assault with them. Anybody do the math on how many stealer attacks it takes to kill him? Would love to see batreps of a couple games with this list.

I think 3x18 is about as many stealers as I could make happen. I am kinda jealous

Not sure when ill get chance to get it on a table but ill report back when I do - thanks for the heads up on the termies. Think ill do that.

[kazetanade]

Dec 22, 2017 18:33:41 GMT nidzy said:

I am curious how this list will do against primarchs. Morty has consistently killed units of genestealers when in assault with them. Anybody do the math on how many stealer attacks it takes to kill him?

It would take an entire Genestealer unit maxed out with toxin sacs and a few smites and possibly 1 volley of Exocrene fire.

[tomb]

List looks strong, I cant help feeling that it will be a more 'blocking list than smash'.

The hive guard certainly delete units and stealers kill stuff but that many stealers may 'clog them selves up' leaving a shooting gallery. Or you tie up the opponent and the stealers will slowly kill units off. 
Stealers struggle against high toughness, this is where I've found mrc toxin tyrants to help stealers out when tied up. 
I feel that dropping some stealers for kraken flyrants will give you access to more psychic support, Kraken warlord trait i.e. Make a stealer squad fight first, smiles to soften up high toughness targets, Devs to clear screens, and assault support. Plus some highly mobile units. 

As an ETC list what armies are you hoping for the list to be a hard counter too?


edit- auto corrected smite to smiles!

[blastarasta]

Dec 23, 2017 9:31:15 GMT tomb said:

List looks strong, I cant help feeling that it will be a more 'blocking list than smash'.

The hive guard certainly delete units and stealers kill stuff but that many stealers may 'clog them selves up' leaving a shooting gallery. Or you tie up the opponent and the stealers will slowly kill units off. 
Stealers struggle against high toughness, this is where I've found mrc toxin tyrants to help stealers out when tied up. 
I feel that dropping some stealers for kraken flyrants will give you access to more psychic support, Kraken warlord trait i.e. Make a stealer squad fight first, smiles to soften up high toughness targets, Devs to clear screens, and assault support. Plus some highly mobile units. 

As an ETC list what armies are you hoping for the list to be a hard counter too?


edit- auto corrected smite to smiles!

Sorry for clarification, when I say ETC style list, I mean a list for a singles event based around that rules set.. I.e 20-0 scoring..

I would hope though that this could counter the "reaper" lists, I imagine it would do ok against spacemarine gunlines as long as it was hammer anvil, same goes for a guideline? But really I' not sure, it' why I'm putting it out there to the hive..

I've got a test game coming up in a couple of hours so might have some good feedback from that..

Also, I started kids because if the flagrant model.. might have to slide 1 or 2 in.. it would however, remove a large chunk of stealers (35 ish?).. prob lowers my residency somewhat..

[kazetanade]

1: there is a space restriction of how many models can reach the enemy. You will probably end up clogging your movement up. You ever played Space Hulk or Death Watch Overkill? Get funnelled into bolter fire killzones.

2: Genestealers were only really good at specific targets - they are good generalist damage but once the Fly vehicles and big T8 or even T7 MCs come to play you will start to suffer. Plus a Mortarion or Magnus will probably tear a hole in everything while you can't pile the damage in on them well enough.

3: Hormagants in Kraken. Kronos Hormagants are like... wut?

[red]

I'm with Kaze on this one to many units running in the same pace it be very slow because off natural bottle necks . terrain will become your enemy and slow you down to much.
You can solve this by having units with different speeds . 6' termigants 8' stealers hormagants 12' ravengers / gargoyels 16 inches hyve tyrants this will deal with bottle necks a bit.

Your giving 2 rounds of shooting to your enemy and that will hurt you a lot. i'm some one that played a lot of swarm list even if you where running hormagaunts your losses will be to big and hyve guard are not super units they cannot tackle all the big nasty stuff..
i would take 2 trygons at least to get you up the board faster 1 unit stealers and 1 unit hormagaunts in the tunnel. or 2 stealer units
it this is not your style take 2 gargoyle units with AG. and drop the hormagaunts. they can do the same thing as the hormagants but faster T 1 or 2 assault from DS idea is keep them in combat multi charge with the gargoles keep them bussy so they cant shoot the stealers.
and go (BEHEMOTH ) because of Hyper-Aggression: Re-roll failed charges its the best for alfa strike. ; gives you 8" charges 65.97% of the time and 9" charges 47.84% of the time. ALWAYS TAKE adrenal glands on deepstriking Trygons, Gargoyles, Hive Tyrants, and Hormagaunts.

HQ choices
broodlord great but Mally and 2 neuro you only need 1 baby sitter andy they are to slow to move with your army . OOE is a great choice now as a 9W character he can run with your swarm and help out on heavy targets. I would consider leaving mally or a nero home and take OOE because he will be a heavy hitter to take out stuff your stealers can not. he can run with the stealers and the broodlord up the board.

[tomb]

Dec 23, 2017 12:06:28 GMT blastarasta said:

Dec 23, 2017 9:31:15 GMT tomb said:

List looks strong, I cant help feeling that it will be a more 'blocking list than smash'.

The hive guard certainly delete units and stealers kill stuff but that many stealers may 'clog them selves up' leaving a shooting gallery. Or you tie up the opponent and the stealers will slowly kill units off. 
Stealers struggle against high toughness, this is where I've found mrc toxin tyrants to help stealers out when tied up. 
I feel that dropping some stealers for kraken flyrants will give you access to more psychic support, Kraken warlord trait i.e. Make a stealer squad fight first, smiles to soften up high toughness targets, Devs to clear screens, and assault support. Plus some highly mobile units. 

As an ETC list what armies are you hoping for the list to be a hard counter too?


edit- auto corrected smite to smiles!

Sorry for clarification, when I say ETC style list, I mean a list for a singles event based around that rules set.. I.e 20-0 scoring..

I would hope though that this could counter the "reaper" lists, I imagine it would do ok against spacemarine gunlines as long as it was hammer anvil, same goes for a guideline? But really I' not sure, it' why I'm putting it out there to the hive..

I've got a test game coming up in a couple of hours so might have some good feedback from that..

Also, I started kids because if the flagrant model.. might have to slide 1 or 2 in.. it would however, remove a large chunk of stealers (35 ish?).. prob lowers my residency somewhat..

How did the test game go?


This is what I'm currently running, it has a duplicate detachment but this can be rearranged for ETC by swapping the rippers n bios to Kronos and flyrants to Kraken. This many stealers can get 'clogged'. I can also swap four stealers from the 20 squad for a 6th hiveguard if I want more Dakka but 20 stealers can take a fair bit of fire and still gain the 4 attacks over 3. I run my Mal forwards and into combat with the stealers looking for prey adaption and the bonus mortal wound. Plus he keeps stealers alive ( in the opponents shooting phase if I blow through enemy squads in my assault phase). I've found brood lord a bit meh and the Mal can tank wounds and metabolic overdrive to keep up.


May give you some ideas...


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) [64 PL, 957pts] ++

+ HQ [16 PL, 333pts] +

Hive Tyrant : Adrenal Glands , Monstrous Rending Claws, Toxin Sacs , Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms , Wings 

Malanthrope 

+ Troops [48 PL, 624pts] +

Genestealers : 5x Acid Maw
. 20x Genestealer  20x Rending Claws

Genestealers : 4x Acid Maw
. 16x Genestealer : 16x Rending Claws 

Genestealers : 4x Acid Maw
. 16x Genestealer : 16x Rending Claws 

+ 

Hive Fleet: Kraken

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) [34 PL, 593pts] ++

+ HQ [22 PL, 386pts] +

Hive Tyrant : Adrenal Glands , Chameleonic Mutation, Monstrous Rending Claws, Toxin Sacs , Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms , Wings 

Hive Tyrant : Adrenal Glands , Monstrous Rending Claws, Toxin Sacs , Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms , Wings 

+ Troops [6 PL, 99pts] +

 3x Ripper Swarm 

 3x Ripper Swarm 

 3x Ripper Swarm 

+ Heavy Support [6 PL, 108pts] +

 Biovore 

Biovore

Biovore

+ 

Hive Fleet: Kraken

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Tyranids) [25 PL, 450pts] ++

+ HQ [12 PL, 210pts] +

Neurothrope 

Neurothrope 

Neurothrope 

+ 

Hive Fleet: Kronos

+ Elites [13 PL, 240pts] +

Hive Guard [13 PL, 240pts]
. Hive Guard Impaler Cannon 
. Hive Guard Impaler Cannon.
.Hive Guard Impaler Cannon.
.Hive Guard Impaler Cannon
. Hive Guard Impaler Cannon


++ Total: [123 PL, 2000pts] ++

[blastarasta]

Oh dear I've just seen how many typos there were in my last post XD, damn tablet..

So played against same guard gun line both games.. stormlord with lascannons HWT in the back, pask, tank commander, culexus, celestine and 40 odd infantry wrapped.. mine was 100 stealers, mally, Tryon, 2 neuro and hive guard..

first was dawn of war, had pretty much everything on the line with mally for -1.. lost half the stealers first turn then he cleared up the rest turn turn 2..

Called it there as I had my answer..

Re-racked the mission, got hammer and anvil.. this list had a cult detachment with 15 stealers, 2 magus and patriarch. Swarmy in pod, 20 stealers n  node, 2 flyrants, 6 bios and guants..

Much better second game.. one squad of 20 with the appropriate support, I.e slingshot, catalyst etc did so much more that the 100 in the other..started them in node, deployed 6, swarmed them up with double advance etc..

Wiped a primaris psyker, infantry squad, half of another infantry squad and tagged pask so he couldn't fall back and leave me exposed..

Flyrants weathered the storm for a turn then started to charge vehicles tagging them again..

Cult detachment never came in, we finished up just before my turn 3.. we talked out where the next couple of turns were going to play and it didn't look great for us.. he had a couple of characters dotted around which would have stopped me getting the cult in to any of the vehicles..

But overall much happier with the second game.. seems to me that quality over quantity for sure..

The cult I'm not sold on.. even getting that 6.. people are so savvy to protecting and bubbling out you'll still have to find that 9" gap.. the swarmy kind of does what the cult do.. except it's better because you can shoot a layer of wrap off first then move through it..

Back to your list you've just posted and you may find that you don't actually want to take that many psykers if playing beta.. by the third smite You'll start to struggle, especially if a culexus is on the board..


Brood
Neuro
Swarmy

16 stealers
16 stealers
Ripper
Ripper
5 dev + 23 flesh gaunt
10 dev + 10 flesh
6 hive
3 hive
3 venom
Muco
Muco
Muco
Bio
Bio
Bio
Pod

This is my next one to try..