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Post by jackshrapnel on Dec 21, 2017 12:11:45 GMT
Trying to work out my tourney list for the nids. I think this has potential. Any recommendations are greatly appreciated. I have access to most models.
Battalion: Jormungandr
Swarmlord Neurothrope Malanthrope
20 genestealers 3 rippers 3 rippers
Trygon Tyrannofex with acid spray Tyrannofex with acid spray
Tyrannocyte
Spearhead: Kronos
Neurothrope (warlord) soul hunger, norn crown
5 hive guard (I only own five for some weird reason!)
biovore biovore Carnifex with double scything talons
2000 points
So Trygon tunnels in the stealers and swarmy in the pod. Meanwhile the j. neurothrope and malanthrope escort the t-fexes into midfield. Carnifex runs interference for anything trying to hit my backfield. Neurothrope hides with the biovores and hive guard buffing their hit rolls and hurting psykers if I get the chance (doesn't happen often but still okay). Norn crown is to give the fex more room to operate, and basically because there didn't really seem to many good options for the characters I took.
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Post by jackshrapnel on Dec 24, 2017 14:20:53 GMT
did a couple test games of the list... worked out well:
Game 1 vs. Chaos: Mission relic
Lucius the eternal, a swarm of noise marines, vindicator, three units of havocs, daemon prince, terminators and a few sorcerers and other support. Deployment was hammer and anvil with the chevron to be 18" apart in the middle, but he deployed back from the line. He won the roll off to go first and I wasn't able to seize. He tried to lay down the hurt at range but between the malanthrope and Jormungar cover save, I weathered the storm. He had also dropped terminators with a sorcerer into my backfield and tried taking out the Neurothrope warlord, however the sorcerer got to eat wounds from soul hunger for his trouble and he failed the charge, even with using a CP reroll.
A couple smites, a scream and the t-fex who stayed still took out the terminators and a couple wounds on the sorcerer. The fex rolled in for a charge to finish him off. Single minded annihilation on hive guard is just brutal. Swarmy and the stealers dropped in and he moved them to tackle the noise marines. When they charged into the one blob however, I lost several on overwatch, and then I learned that noise marines get to shoot you when they die! oh man, that hurt. I killed the noise marines, but the return fire followed by the characters took them out. Swarmy crippled the vindicator.
The hive guard did a tremendous amount of work, and the biovores were simply annoying, throwing out a few mortals here and there with some spores to block lanes and eat up shots. I ended up losing the Trygon and swarmy was down to 1/2 wounds by the end (after eating Lucius though). The rippers quietly won the game by popping up on the relic while everyone else was busy dealing with all the death in their faces.
Game 2 vs. Necrons
We played maelstrom (the one from chapter approved that also incorporates kill points and three cards - which you sadly cannot discard!) dawn of war deployment. He had two units of tesla immortals, a horde of warriors backed by a cryptek and Orikan for good measure, a CCB lord, Heavy destroyers, wraiths, a doomsday ark and scarabs. He won the roll to go first (I had three more units than he did so not a surprise) but I seized. My first turn of cards meant I had to take an objective in his backfield, kill a character (also surrounded by a regenerating phalanx) and make him fail a leadership test. Oh man. Not good.
Swarmlord, trygon and stealers popped up to threaten the warriors and one of the heavy destroyer units. Swarmlord moved the stealers up to guarentee a charge on both and single minded annihilation removed one of the units of tesla immortals. I had faced tesla + my will be done combo before and knew those two units HAD to die. Stealers got catalyst and made the charge losing only a couple on overwatch. The 5++ bubble from Orikan made the warriors not get wiped, and he burnt the command points to keep them there, also denying my objective (as with killing 14 warriors some were for sure going to run!). He flew the heavy destroyer on 1 wound out of combat and used veil of darkness to pull the warriors out, who regenerated TEN out of the 14 losses. My stealers were right in his backfield however and he HAD to deal with them or they would start wrecking face. Meanwhile the scarabs and wraiths moved up to midfield. He sacrifice charged the scarabs to eat a Tfex overwatch and made it in with one wounded base, allowing the wraiths to get in unscathed. They barely scratched the paint on the tfex, but kept him from shooting on my next turn. He also scooped up a card by hitting an objective. He brought the stealers down to 5 models with shooting - thankfully catalyst saved my bacon on a lot of those! My next turn I pushed him into the corner, charged in with the fex to bail out the t-fex, who withdrew. Another round of single minded annihilation erased the other tesla immortal unit. Swarmlord and the stealers charged into heavy D's and warriors, and started wrecking stuff, continuing to try and make him fail a leadership so I could finally score a card. I took out a cryptek in the mix scoring my first card, but I couldn't make any crons run and the objective I needed was in the corner he was castling around. I was taking a mighty toll on Kill Points however and was in his lines.
The fex fought the wraiths with some smite help from the neurothropes and eventually wore them down. Each draw I got after the cryptek death allowed me to at least score them. hive guard blew up the doomsday ark. Swarmlord cut his way to the warlord and my opponent conceded as there was no way he could catch up at that point. Win to the tyranids.
Both games hive guard, and the swarmy/stealer combo was amazing and basically won the game. The backfield Kronos protecting fex was actually very useful in both games (I didn't have that much hope of him doing much when designing the list). I had thought that the Trygon wasn't going to do much, and he didn't kill a ton, but he's a hell of a distraction and he ate a LOT of shots (especially against the chaos list) because if he does hit combat he's super dangerous. I don't think I'll ever go back to rupture cannon. Acid spray is SO useful.
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Post by devilrules on Dec 28, 2017 17:06:42 GMT
as you have a swarmlord for heavy hitting, and are jormangander i dont see the point of a trygon. change this to 3 ravners and pay a command point to bring up the genestealers. also not sure the malnathrope is worth the points for minus 1 to hit the tyranofexes when you have a neurothrope already giving synapse. with both these changes you can add a flyrant to drop in with either dakka to remove screens allowing genestealers to reach preferred targets or meelee to give the ability to destroy a flyer or jump over screen to get to tanks using swarmies ability. Also gives you more yummy smite
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Post by devilrules on Dec 28, 2017 17:33:31 GMT
also you would then have the ability to move the carnifex into the batalion therefore not needing the norm crown and giving it a lot more freedom
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Post by jackshrapnel on Dec 29, 2017 0:29:54 GMT
as you have a swarmlord for heavy hitting, and are jormangander i dont see the point of a trygon. change this to 3 ravners and pay a command point to bring up the genestealers. also not sure the malnathrope is worth the points for minus 1 to hit the tyranofexes when you have a neurothrope already giving synapse. with both these changes you can add a flyrant to drop in with either dakka to remove screens allowing genestealers to reach preferred targets or meelee to give the ability to destroy a flyer or jump over screen to get to tanks using swarmies ability. Also gives you more yummy smite Been using the Trygon mainly as a third heavy hitter, and something which has a way to drop multiple damage on bigger targets. If I drop the malanthrope and trygon for raveners and a flyrant, I still couldn't move the fex over to the batallion as I'd be short on the heavy supports.... but I might be able to find points for another biovore in there. Thanks for the feedback, I'll need to test out your recommendations.
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Post by jackshrapnel on Dec 29, 2017 22:25:23 GMT
Played a game today against a tough Death guard list. It had Mortarian, two units of plague marines, poxwalkers, 2 flying daemon princes, two units of spawn, 2 of those new tanks (who can shoot lascannon and no LOS required mortars) with some support characters. deployment dawn of war, and the mission with an objective in our deployment zone each. Lost first turn and failed to seize.
Morty and the two units of plague marines all moved up to midfield, the plagues being able to advance with two dice due to a bellringer. Basically on my doorstep and ready to charge next turn. He snagged first blood with a mortar taking out a biovore out of LOS. Not a whole lot I could do against that!
My turn one saw the end of Mortarian. Between hive guard and single minded annihilation and smites and the two t-fexes getting to double shoot I was able to take him out. The genestealers were moved by Swarmy and charged a depleted unit of plaguemarines and the warlord prince, but catalyst was stopped so I needed to get lucky. the prince unfortunately had the 2+ armor that bounces a mortal wound on successful saves however. I managed to get the plague marines to two models and a few wounds off the prince but in retaliation, between the saved wounds and his strikes back knocked the stealers down to only one model!
he didn't want to get pinned to get charged by swarmlord and a trygon, so booked it with his warlord and started lobbing shells downfield. The rippers popped up to threaten his backfield objective and keep the poxwalkers busy. They did pretty much nothing other than to provide a distraction however. The carnifex was taken out before he could charge those juicy support characters, and the tfexes reaped a mighty toll, clearing out the midfield easily. Swarmy and the Trygon made it across the table to one of the tanks and were eventually able to take one out, but good invul saves delayed them long enough that on my turn five I had the two of them ready to charge the poxwalkers on the objective. Between the two of them they got the walkers down to 2 models, who fell back to let the last remaining tank take shots on the pair of them. It was too little too late though, he could have likely got one of them, but not both. As he split fire, he managed to take the trygon down to two wounds and didn't do a thing to swarmy. They mopped up the poxwalkers taking the objective.
Opponent had one tank and his warlord prince hiding to preserve warlord and gain linebreaker. I had one Tfex left with the malanthrope and two neurothropes moving up to smite/flame him, and a biovore giving pot shots. Swarmlord and the Trygon had the objective cleared and were an easy charge from the tank. Game ended. Win for the Tyranids.
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Post by luke1705 on Dec 31, 2017 2:26:15 GMT
Glad to hear this list is working out for you. It looks pretty solid. I would echo that I think a Ravener serves your list in particular better than a Trygon and that I think your Carnifex should either be changed to have a shooting weapon or just be replaced with a Biovore (and that 6th Hive Guard that we all know you're going to get )
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Post by jackshrapnel on Dec 31, 2017 4:20:18 GMT
Glad to hear this list is working out for you. It looks pretty solid. I would echo that I think a Ravener serves your list in particular better than a Trygon and that I think your Carnifex should either be changed to have a shooting weapon or just be replaced with a Biovore (and that 6th Hive Guard that we all know you're going to get ) I'd agree that the fex really doesn't serve much of a purpose and would be better off being a third biovore + 6th hive guard. He's a bullet sponge, and that's about it. Ate some deep striking tau today which was nice, but then just got fusioned off the board. I hear the suggestion on removing the trygon, he's just done so much work for me every game I'm hesitant to get rid of him. As a secondary follow up charge to the swarmlord and stealer combo he's been doing a LOT of work.
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Post by luke1705 on Dec 31, 2017 4:30:40 GMT
I don't think he's bad, but I do believe that downgrading him to 3 raveners would allow you to get enough troops choices to get a second battalion and some super important screening models.
Imagine that you're facing some mortal wounds via smite, etc. Who in your list eats those wounds? Stealers? MCs? Your rippers are too important to sacrifice, so having something like Hormagants or Gargoyles to screen could be a big deal vs certain lists. If you're not seeing that, then by all means keep the Trygon.
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Post by kazetanade on Dec 31, 2017 9:27:26 GMT
That carnifex would be good to change into screening units.
Carnifexen need to be run in units of 3. But outside of Exocrines and T-Fexes, I think every MC needs to be ran in 3s...
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Post by No One on Jan 2, 2018 4:42:15 GMT
When they charged into the one blob however, I lost several on overwatch, and then I learned that noise marines get to shoot you when they die! oh man, that hurt. I killed the noise marines, but the return fire followed by the characters took them out. This (probably) wasn't legal: (Technically Index FAQ, but the wording hasn't changed). I say 'probably', since I think that ruling's because, even though they can fire if within 1", your unit is within 1" and thus cannot be chosen as a target. But if their entire unit died and the stealers weren't in combat with anything else...on the one hand, the presumed reason for not being able to fire isn't there. On the other hand...the wording for the FAQ is within 1" when slain, not when it goes to fire. So...yeah, no shooting the stealers (other targets are fair game though). As to the list...dropping the fex for some proper screens seems like a good move. Not really for smite spam per se, more for DS/charge blocking. Though I don't know how that'd interact with the more midflield t-fexes...*shrug*.
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Post by jackshrapnel on Jan 2, 2018 11:48:29 GMT
oh man... that makes things a LOT less crazy facing noise marines.... wouldn't have saved him that game, but still good to know!
I really have to just get my hands on more hive guard... local store hasn't had them on the shelf for a LONG time. then the fex can go, and I can figure out a way to get a vanguard of hive guard instead of the spearhead.
I find the hive guard just consistently do a crazy amount of work.
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Post by imweasel on Jan 4, 2018 13:56:26 GMT
So I‘ve been reading this thread for some time already and I really like the idea of your list I wanted to consider the feedback you‘ve got and share my update for it. Feel free to say how you feel about it. Does it still fit the idea you first had in mind or has it changed too much. ++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) [73 PL, 1335pts] +++ Fast Attack +Raveners [4 PL, 69pts]. Ravener: 2x Scything Talons . Ravener: 2x Scything Talons . Ravener: 2x Scything Talons + HQ +Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 208pts]: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Scything Talons, Power: Catalyst, Power: Psychic Scream, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings Hive Tyrant [11 PL, 208pts]: Adrenal Glands, Monstrous Scything Talons, Power: Catalyst, Power: Psychic Scream, Toxin Sacs, Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings Malanthropes [5 PL, 140pts]: Malanthrope + Troops +Genestealers [16 PL, 216pts]: 5x Acid Maw . 18x Genestealer: 18x Rending Claws Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm Ripper Swarms [2 PL, 33pts]: 3x Ripper Swarm + Heavy Support +Tyrannofex [11 PL, 214pts]: Acid Spray, Stinger Salvo Tyrannofex [11 PL, 214pts]: Acid Spray, Stinger Salvo + No Force Org Slot +Hive Fleet: Jormungandr ++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) [36 PL, 656pts] +++ HQ +Neurothrope [4 PL, 70pts]: Power: Psychic Scream Neurothrope [4 PL, 70pts]: Power: Psychic Scream + Troops +Termagants [3 PL, 40pts]: 10x Termagant (Fleshborer) Termagants [3 PL, 40pts]: 10x Termagant (Fleshborer) Termagants [3 PL, 40pts]: 10x Termagant (Fleshborer) + Heavy Support +Biovores [2 PL, 36pts]: Biovore Biovores [2 PL, 36pts]: Biovore Biovores [2 PL, 36pts]: Biovore + No Force Org Slot +Hive Fleet: Kronos + Elites +Hive Guard [13 PL, 288pts]. Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon . Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon . Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon . Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon . Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon . Hive Guard: Impaler Cannon ++ Total: [109 PL, 1991pts] ++Created with BattleScribeThe alternative would be to swap the two Flyrants for a Swarmlord and drop the biovores to fit in the Tyrannocyte.
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Post by jackshrapnel on Jan 4, 2018 19:21:18 GMT
thanks for the thoughts for sure!
I'm more set on the idea of the swarmlord serving the dual role of cruising those stealers forward for an alpha strike as well as being a pretty nasty close combat monster himself.
I like the idea of running double Battalion (especially with needing to use Command Points for popping the stealers up)
definitely gives me something to think about... thank you!
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