Nidzy's LVO List Discussion

[nidzy]

Hey all, many of you have seen my ongoing discussion with hive about my LVO list. I wanted to move that here because it is mostly turning into me posting new iterations of my army list which belongs here. You can catch up with that discussion here if you like.

A summary of the feedback so far seems to be that folks don't like the exocrine in the list, aren't super sold on the shooting fex I have included and want more biovores and hive guard. I am limited a little bit my availability of these models in my area but I think I can manage to scrape an extra biovore and an extra box of hive guard together in the next month and get them painted.

I also love the carnifex and want to keep some in the list, but math wise it seems like CC fex might be a little bit more point efficient and will add significant extra forward threat to the kraken portion of the list. Here is an updated list based on the feedback I have received so far. I appreciate you all keeping the conversation going as it is motivating me to get productive with painting, schedule practice games and basically get my (please do not swear) together as time is running short.

This list has less shooting that my other iterations, but a lot more forward pressure, better board control and the ability to wrap up a lot of my opponents force in any given turn to help limit shooting.

Kraken Battalion:

Flyrant: 2x2 Devourers
Flyrant: HVC, ts/ag(most likely miasma)

2x19 genestealers
28 hormagants AG

3xcarnifex: 2xscytals, ag/ts, tusks, spores, bone mace

Kronos battalion:

2xneurothrope

3x3 rippers

6 hive guard: impaler

biovore
biovore
biovore

[blastarasta]

with a strictly competitive view point, how do you envisage getting your stealers in uncathed consistently turn one?

I ask because your "core list" ie kraken flyrants and genestealers is what I want to do..

I like to think of the worse case scenario for my army, which normally consists of "how does it goes second, how to I keep stuff alive when I get alpha struck" etc..

I'm coming to the decision that swarmy needs to be involved.. We have one squad a stealers in nodes, they come up 6" away, then swarmy does his thing to sling them up the board. A second squad of genestealers come in with a primus (3D6 rerolling etc) and I assume they manage at least a 5 on their roll.

So we then have two squads of genestealers in their face turn one with anything else you want (flyrants gargoyles etc..) but most importantly your opponent could do nothing to stop you.. one of the squads will be able to overrun, adrenalin etc the other would just be damage output..

I personally don't feel carnifexs will do well on top tables.. you look at a reaper list for example, it will have in the range of 47 reapers (one squad of 10 shooting twice) and it only takes 5/6 of those to kill a carnifiex? you'll lose 400+ points turn one pretty much guaranteed just from them, then the swooping hawks will clear your genestealers/ horms whatever's left..

that said I think 6 hive guard is fine (if you feel you will have LOS blocking terrain) and 3 biovore..

[nidzy]

Dec 19, 2017 10:24:34 GMT blastarasta said:

with a strictly competitive view point, how do you envisage getting your stealers in uncathed consistently turn one?

I ask because your "core list" ie kraken flyrants and genestealers is what I want to do..

I like to think of the worse case scenario for my army, which normally consists of "how does it goes second, how to I keep stuff alive when I get alpha struck" etc..

I'm coming to the decision that swarmy needs to be involved.. We have one squad a stealers in nodes, they come up 6" away, then swarmy does his thing to sling them up the board. A second squad of genestealers come in with a primus (3D6 rerolling etc) and I assume they manage at least a 5 on their roll.

So we then have two squads of genestealers in their face turn one with anything else you want (flyrants gargoyles etc..) but most importantly your opponent could do nothing to stop you.. one of the squads will be able to overrun, adrenalin etc the other would just be damage output..

I personally don't feel carnifexs will do well on top tables.. you look at a reaper list for example, it will have in the range of 47 reapers (one squad of 10 shooting twice) and it only takes 5/6 of those to kill a carnifiex? you'll lose 400+ points turn one pretty much guaranteed just from them, then the swooping hawks will clear your genestealers/ horms whatever's left..

that said I think 6 hive guard is fine (if you feel you will have LOS blocking terrain) and 3 biovore..

Hey Thanks for your feedback and sorry for the late response. I have had the flu. I finally did play a test game with the list above and I think I am swinging back toward more shooting. I am torn between using the shooty fex in my lists on the linked thread or swapping them out for another exocrine.

To address a couple of your points:

1. Kraken stealers move. I haven't had a game thus far where someone was able to cripple them before they arrived at their lines. I have had then absorb a charge and get below 10 models, but they always hit back. The one look that has crippled them with them being ineffective was mortarion hitting them in his top profile. The goal with stealers in this list is to screen and then punish opponents who fail to deal with them. My delivery system is to opportunistic advance one group of them. I have considered metabolic overdrive if going first to put the second squad in the opponents face.

I am not that interested in taking swarmlord because he is a point sink and he needs to go in a pod to be effective and I don't know if I have time to paint one.

My playtests with shooty fex have gone well. People ignore them in favor of other targets. If I go first flyrants are in their face and they have been great at soaking damage for me. If I go second at least they have the -1. Shots into them aren't going into something else. The assault fex haven't given me the punch I am looking for.

I wish I had 9 biovores to be able to run that look. I think it would solidify the board saturation I am looking for and start putting mortal wounds out there consistently early. Since I don't I am leaning toward taking one just to use for a kronos spore mine every turn to shut down powers.

This is the last list I wrote, swinging back toward an earlier iteration of what I put on the post linked above.

Kraken Battalion:

Flyrant: 2x2 devs (chamelionic)
Flyrant: HVC, MRC TS/AG (prob use cp for miasma. This guy is a satisfying little vehicle hunter)

2x19 genestealers
3 rippers

Kronos battalion

Neurothrope
Malanthrope

19 termagants
2x3 rippers

6 hive guard: impaler

2xExocrine
biovore

The genestealers do what I described above, kronos pretty universally stays home and shoots. The malanthrope gives the exos a chance to make it, or at least for the opponent to shoot more than they want to at it before it pops.

[blastarasta]

So I've been messing round with lists today as I've got a big GT in January but in the UK.. I'll list it below as I could do with some feedback too..

You'll have to let me know how the double exo goes, they'e been sold out here for a good few months now so I've been running a 6 man squad of hive guard instead.. the 2 CP stratagem on them gives you the same number of shots as the 2 exo but for a lots less points.. 

I've changed my mind on swarmy I think you're right. don't think he's really needed with kraken so I've gone for more stealers in my list..

I tried 2 double dev fexs last night and I actually quite like them for the points.. kinda glasscannons and prob won't do well against anything with half decent antitank but at least you have some redundancy..

Im going to playtest these two when I get the chance:

Kraken battalion 

Broodlord
Neuro
Mally

20 stealers
20 stealers
20 stealers
20 stealers
20 stealers
15stealers

Kronus spearhead

Neuro

Ripper
Ripper

Bio
Bio
Bio

So this the purest form - I should clarify that this is ETC event, so tabling you oppnent gives you a perfect score. The list that won the last event had 37 reapers and 30 swooping hawks..

Second list:

Kraken battalion:

Brood
Mally
Neuro

18 stealers
18 stealers
18 stealers
18 stealers
20 horm

Kronos spearhead

Neuro

Ripper

Bio
Bio
Bio

GSC supreme command

Magus
Magus
Primus

14 stealers

So this one gives me a bit more turn 1 pressure as well as a case to ignore overwatch or mind control for big units but the cult tax basically means I lose 20 stealers.. a friend says he prefers the second but I think I like the first more.. I prob don't need to worry about CP, I'll be using that stratagem for the D3 back if I remember to save my last point..

[kazetanade]

That's too many stealers and no utility/support for them. You can run them all at the enemys face but only 1 unit is reaching them with double advance, and you're likely to meet chaff there.

I dont know how unbalanved2 the lists are there but it looks like a list that will trip over its own feet trying to get to the enemy and getting shot up by Genestealers in the Overkill game.

But if it works for you, I'm not going to judge you for it. Bring whatever power is in your grasp!

[blastarasta]

Dec 22, 2017 2:32:54 GMT kazetanade said:

That's too many stealers and no utility/support for them. You can run them all at the enemys face but only 1 unit is reaching them with double advance, and you're likely to meet chaff there.

I dont know how unbalanved2 the lists are there but it looks like a list that will trip over its own feet trying to get to the enemy and getting shot up by Genestealers in the Overkill game.

But if it works for you, I'm not going to judge you for it. Bring whatever power is in your grasp!

Point taken Kaze - ive had a little mess, I'm going to start a new thread so I don't take over Nidzy's.. 

[blastarasta]

This is the last list I wrote, swinging back toward an earlier iteration of what I put on the post linked above.



Kraken Battalion:



Flyrant: 2x2 devs (chamelionic)

Flyrant: HVC, MRC TS/AG (prob use cp for miasma. This guy is a satisfying little vehicle hunter)



2x19 genestealers

3 rippers



Kronos battalion



Neurothrope

Malanthrope



19 termagants

2x3 rippers



6 hive guard: impaler



2xExocrine

biovore



The genestealers do what I described above, kronos pretty universally stays home and shoots. The malanthrope gives the exos a chance to make it, or at least for the opponent to shoot more than they want to at it before it pops



Read more: thetyranidhive.proboards.com/post/new/54461#ixzz51ynPUNIn

I like it honestly - seems like you've remembered the secondaries denial stuff and you've got a good bit of shooting in too.. one little thing is how much work will that bio actually do on his own? maybe just another squad of rippers for line breakers? 

[kazetanade]

That biovore is for the anti-psyker spore. Its why Kronos is mandatory.

[nidzy]

Dec 22, 2017 11:35:00 GMT kazetanade said:

That biovore is for the anti-psyker spore. Its why Kronos is mandatory.

Yep, that single spore gives me a chance to shut down psychics the whole game. It is also one more sort of null drop to get a sense of where they are deploying before I put down my heavies.

[nidzy]

Hey Everybody, I managed to come up on some biovores via a few ebay deals. I have a couple of list rewrites here that I feel keep the feel of the original but add in my now 6 biovores. Six seems to be the number that is starting to cause real problems for people in my local meta in terms of board/lane control and threat saturation, whereas 1-3 just seems like a bit of distraction and extra mortal wounds.

These lists are pretty similar. Do you think giving up a few bodies and the malathrope in list 2 is worth the extra CP? Any suggestions for getting more out of either of these lists?

List 1 (7CP):

Kraken Battalion:

Flyrant: HVC, TS/AG(miasma)
Flyrant: 2z2 devourers(chamelionic)

2x19 genestealers: 4 acid maw
3 rippers

Kronos Spearhead:

Malanthrope

19 termigants

5 hive guard: Impaler cannons

2x3 biovore
2x exocrine

List 2(9 CP)

Kraken Battalion:

Flyrant: HVC, TS/AG
Flyrant: 2z2 devourers

2x17 genestealers: 4x acid maw
3 rippers

3 biovores

Kronos battalion:

2x neurothrope

15 termagants
2x3 rippers

5 hive guard: Impaler cannons

2x exocrine
3 biovores

[acehilator]

Did you make a mistake copy and pasting the list? You have four detachments... or is there no restriction on the number of detachments for the event?

[nidzy]

Jan 10, 2018 18:24:18 GMT acehilator said:

Did you make a mistake copy and pasting the list? You have four detachments... or is there no restriction on the number of detachments for the event?

it is two lists

[nidzy]

Last bump on this thread until I post back here with results from the LVO and maybe a mini batrep.

I got in to this whole thing with a pact with my best friend to go to LVO this year when 8th ed was even less than a salty ass rumor 18 months ago. If we had known at the time how much things would change in the next year, we probably would have held off until all the books were out and we could build toward this edition. As is, I think this is the best list that I can field in the time frame allowed. My goal is to win 3 games or end up in the top 40-50% of players. If I lose 3 on day one I may end up playing blackjack all day Saturday and holding off for the doubles event on Sunday. The doubles event is what sealed us going because we love that format. I will post our lists elsewhere. I think we are basically (please do not swear) but it should be fun regardless.

What I am really looking for is this: can anybody who has played with this type of list offer some insight that has not been presented thus far on this thread about the meta and how this list will do? What I have presented here is not uncommon on the hive so I expect some of you have experience with it.

Finally: to anybody that is going to the LVO and is interested, I wanna buy you a beer!* I have always wanted to meet people from the hive, but never had an opportunity. If you are at this event and want to mingle over the weekend of gaming then hit me up and I would be glad to buy you a brew.


Kraken Battalion:

Flyrant: Wings, HVC, TS/AG(usually miasma)
Flyrant: 2x2 Devourers

2x18 genestealers: 4xacid maw
3 rippers(edit: added this third troop in kraken battalion)

Kronos Battalion:

Malanthrope
Neurothrope

2x3 rippers
19 termagants

5 hive guard: impalers

3 biovores
Exocrine
Exocrine

*Disclamer: Beers bought for internet strangers will max at 3. First come first served. This is not a weird sex thing. Unless you want it to be, in which case all offers will be evaluated as received. And likely rejected. Unless really enticing like..well..lets not get into it.

[jaigo]

Very nice list
Enjoy the LVO!

[acehilator]

nidzy: Remove four Stealers, get the sixth HG.