Metabolic Overdrive and Oppotunistic Advance question

[hivefleetskorpios]

Opportunistic Advance (1 CP): Use in the Movement Phase. Choose a KRAKEN unit that does not have the Fly keyword. When Advancing you can double the number you roll when determining how much to add to the unit's Movement characteristic.

Metabolic Overdrive (1 CP): Use during the movement phase. Pick a Tyranid unit that has moved, that unit can move (and advance, if you wish) again. However, roll a D6 for every model in the unit; on a 6 that unit suffers a mortal wound.

When I use both stratagems one unit in Movement phase, which case happens?

1. I roll the 1st advance, double it, move then do it again.

2. I roll the 1st advance, double it, move then when i move again, use the 1st result instead of roll advance 2nd time.

[cypheon]

You do....
Move + (d6 x 2), followed by Move + (d6 x 2), then test for trampled to death.

Or, simply, you roll a new die for the second move. Just remember kraken roll 3d6 and pick the highest both times as well.

Edit to add: i am not sure, but an arguement could be made for the doubling effect to work on a ubit during a hive commander move as well. Expect that to be erratad, and until then, contested by... everyone who's ever looked at a warhammer kit and thought "...maybe".

[localcultist]

I think You double number rolled each time You advance. Those are separate rolls for separate advances.
And then You roll for causalities after second "run".

[hivefleetskorpios]

Because the Advancing in the Rulebook said:



When you pick the unit to move in the Movement phase, you can declare it will Advance. Roll a dice and add the result to Move characteristic of all models in the unit for that Movement phase. A unit the Advanced can't shoot or charge that turn.



All of these stratagems happen in the Movement phase so I figure that I can just use the 1st roll result for the 2nd without rolling.

[cypheon]

That... will require a good faqing by gw once the codex is out, but that is a good point to argue the "1 die roll needed" theory

[phayze]

Nov 8, 2017 8:43:31 GMT hivefleetskorpios said:

Because the Advancing in the Rulebook said:



When you pick the unit to move in the Movement phase, you can declare it will Advance. Roll a dice and add the result to Move characteristic of all models in the unit for that Movement phase. A unit the Advanced can't shoot or charge that turn.



All of these stratagems happen in the Movement phase so I figure that I can just use the 1st roll result for the 2nd without rolling.

Opportunistic Advance (1 CP): Use in the Movement Phase. Choose a KRAKEN unit that does not have the Fly keyword. When Advancing you can double the number you roll when determining how much to add to the unit's Movement characteristic.

Metabolic Overdrive (1 CP): Use during the movement phase. Pick a Tyranid unit that has moved, that unit can move (and advance, if you wish) again. However, roll a D6 for every model in the unit; on a 6 that unit suffers a mortal wound.


Alright a little bit of a powergamer question here: say my Kraken genestealers with movement 8 pop the doubling advance stratagem, roll 3d6 and pick 6 for their advance roll, doubling to 12 and add it to their movement for the rest of the phase to make it move 20". I then pop the move again in movement phase stratagem, move my now boosted 20" movement and roll 3d6 for advance, picking 6 and doubling to 12, and move 32" again.

They have moved 52" in one turn and then may charge.

Advancing adds the result to their movement characteristic for the rest of the phase. If you increase their characteristic and have the ability to use it again, you use the boosted characteristic as it is still the same phase. So swarmy's ability may not work with this, but the movement stratagem would.

Is this right?

[karasou]

Nope Metabolic Overdrive doesn't allow to charge or shoot after the move :/

[phayze]

Nov 8, 2017 15:42:12 GMT karasou said:

Nope Metabolic Overdrive doesn't allow to charge or shoot after the move :/

Well shoot... Do they still move 50" though? Could be interesting to have units of 5 stealers lurking in nodes, only to burst onto an objective a full board away in a maelstrom game.

[xtztxtxz]

FWIW, spore mines and mucolids don't need to charge in order to explode, they just need to be within 3". It could be pretty hilarious to use both of these Stratagems alongside the Kraken trait to zoom them 15-20" across the board. Mucolids especially as with multiple wounds and fewer models per unit they are less vulnerable to losing damage output from rolling 1's.

[xtztxtxz]

Nov 8, 2017 15:53:39 GMT phayze said:

Nov 8, 2017 15:42:12 GMT karasou said:

Nope Metabolic Overdrive doesn't allow to charge or shoot after the move :/

Well shoot... Do they still move 50" though? Could be interesting to have units of 5 stealers lurking in nodes, only to burst onto an objective a full board away in a maelstrom game.

If you deploy to a node from reserve you've already 'moved' the unit that turn. They can Metabolic Advance but wouldn't be able to charge.

For crazy super-speed Kraken Genestealers you could:

• Move with Opportunistic Advance as normal for an average of ~18"
• Move again with Metabolic Movement for another ~18"
• Drop Swarmlord next to the 'stealers in a pod at the end of the phase
• Use Hive Commander to fling the brood another ~14" in the shooting phase

However they still wouldn't be able to charge due to Metabolic Movement

[karasou]

Nov 8, 2017 16:29:51 GMT xtztxtxz said:

Nov 8, 2017 15:53:39 GMT phayze said:

Well shoot... Do they still move 50" though? Could be interesting to have units of 5 stealers lurking in nodes, only to burst onto an objective a full board away in a maelstrom game.

If you deploy to a node from reserve you've already 'moved' the unit that turn. They can Metabolic Advance but wouldn't be able to charge.

For crazy super-speed Kraken Genestealers you could:

• Move with Opportunistic Advance as normal for an average of ~18"
• Move again with Metabolic Movement for another ~18"
• Drop Swarmlord next to the 'stealers in a pod at the end of the phase
• Use Hive Commander to fling the brood another ~14" in the shooting phase

However they still wouldn't be able to charge due to Metabolic Movement

Normally you can't do the stratagem after droping from the node, because you do this at the end of the mouvement phase. More generally, you can't do something which must be done in a phase when this is the end of this phase.

[lordsia]

Well, RAW you would;
1) Roll for Advance, double the result, and add it to your Move rating.
2) Move up to your new Move rating inches.
3) Roll for Advance again, adding the result to your Move rating.
4) Move up to your new and improved Move rating inches.

So, assuming 6s for Advancing thanks to Kraken Adaptation, a Kraken Maleceptor could move (8+[6*2])+(8+[6*2]+[6]) = 46 inches, and then blast away at up to 6 enemy units with it's AOE smite.

A neat trick, if nothing else.

[kazetanade]

What makes you think you can add 2 advance values to your 2nd move? You're only given express permission to move again, not to roll a 2nd advanced die. You just get to add your advanced value to your movement, if anything at all.

This type of rule lawyering is bad.

[Xenothios]

Yeah, what? Maybe in a tournament that allows for weird RAW loopholes, but the wording of the Advance rule was clearly not written with multiple advances in mind. If you can get away with it, great, but don't expect it to for long.

[luke1705]

You absolutely can advance any time you move, just like you still shoot as if it were the shooting phase for overwatch, with the obvious exception of hitting on 6’s.

So Swarmlord, for example, would allow a squad of Genestealers to move AND advance a second time.

I do believe that you have to roll again for their second advance, since advance specifies for that phase and it is now the shooting phase.

I do not know whether the double your advance roll stratagem applies to the Swarmlord move. I think RAW it may, but that could use an FAQ.

Even without that second doubling of the advance, you could realistically expect a 5 on any advance roll, meaning that you’re going to move 8 + 5*2 + 8 + 5 = 31 inches on a single turn, plus your 2d6 charge move. That’s pretty sweet for 1 CP. Does of course require you to be on the board at the start of the turn.

My real question is whether or not you can use the opportunistic advance stratagem on Swarmlord’s double move. It says “use in the movement phase”, so RAW it is clear that you cannot. But I would imagine that they intended it to be used on a unit whenever it is elected to move. I actually expect an FAQ in our favor for that, ruling that we CAN use that stratagem when Swarmy moves a unit