|
Post by kazetanade on Jun 1, 2017 20:17:55 GMT
Haruspex in pod may be viable now too, even though the little bugger is so expensive. I like some of these changes but not including the stock wargear in the points cost is driving me mad, especially since everything is an odd number for some reason. Yeah with the way wounds and damage work now, 8th ed is going to be all about applying the right unit against the right enemy target. The Haruspex frankly is probably going to be terrible against large infantry squads, as the multi-damage wounds he does will be wasted against single-wound models. Maybe the additional Shovelling Claws attacks make him better against infantry, but I feel like the 2 x Str feature of them is just way overkill. He's probably going to be an elite killer, able to dish out massive amounts of wounds to higher toughness/wounds models reliably, and heal when he kills them. He's got more potential hits than any other MC in this codex. It's 4D3 hits with D3 damage meaning 2 wound randoms still get pwned instead of soaking extra wounds. He'll be a good general purpose unit, that tanks better than most MCs due to having T8, 13 Wounds, and the chance to restoring 2 wounds every player's turn. He'll eat everything from plebians single wound horde infantry to medium sized multi-wound infantry to elite low model count infantry to certain mid-T single model units. Definitely better than the Fex who is just a cheap battering ram that you ram down the enemy's throat. In fact, his elite killing attack is actually not able to heal him - he's very squarely able to handle both types to a certain degree, but will die to anything dedicated. He probably wants to be in hordes the most.
|
|
|
Post by N.I.B. on Jun 1, 2017 20:20:16 GMT
One thing that's always bugged me about Trygons, is that I'm forced to pay points for their lame, contraproductive shooting attack that decreases their chance to get a successful charge. Now that we can read exactly how much we're forced to pay for it, it's more annoying than ever. It should be optional, or just removed like thorax weapons. I mean, from looking at the model you can't even tell that its a weapon. 21 fething points!
Tyrant Guards with M7 supposed to guard M9-16 Tyrants are also irritating, even though we saw it coming miles away.
|
|
|
Post by gigasnail on Jun 1, 2017 20:36:38 GMT
Just shoot something else, instead of what you intend to charge.
|
|
|
Post by kjolnir on Jun 1, 2017 20:37:51 GMT
Yeah with the way wounds and damage work now, 8th ed is going to be all about applying the right unit against the right enemy target. The Haruspex frankly is probably going to be terrible against large infantry squads, as the multi-damage wounds he does will be wasted against single-wound models. Maybe the additional Shovelling Claws attacks make him better against infantry, but I feel like the 2 x Str feature of them is just way overkill. He's probably going to be an elite killer, able to dish out massive amounts of wounds to higher toughness/wounds models reliably, and heal when he kills them. He's got more potential hits than any other MC in this codex. It's 4D3 hits with D3 damage meaning 2 wound randoms still get pwned instead of soaking extra wounds. He'll be a good general purpose unit, that tanks better than most MCs due to having T8, 13 Wounds, and the chance to restoring 2 wounds every player's turn. He'll eat everything from plebians single wound horde infantry to medium sized multi-wound infantry to elite low model count infantry to certain mid-T single model units. Definitely better than the Fex who is just a cheap battering ram that you ram down the enemy's throat. In fact, his elite killing attack is actually not able to heal him - he's very squarely able to handle both types to a certain degree, but will die to anything dedicated. He probably wants to be in hordes the most. For sure. Gonna be interesting to see how it all plays out. The game definitely feels very rock-paper-scissors-y right now, and I think a lot of the skill involved is going to be in getting the right kind of mismatches, particularly in melee for us.
|
|
|
Post by N.I.B. on Jun 1, 2017 20:45:05 GMT
Missed Spore Mine shots are placed 3-6" away. Still wondering what you're getting at. So you can cause 1-3 wounds on a unit you're about to charge, if you happen to miss a shooting attack? I missed the more than 3" and misread as 1" away (That's DL's special thing). Otherwise You could by piling in a few harpies and biovores, potentially get 3-5 spore mines near enough to trigger on the unit you want to charge. Like a GK NDK, or a Stompa or an IK or whatever it is. You then do the charges - at the end of the charge phase if I read it correctly it'll activate on the nearest unit in combat within 3" of it, doing D3 mortal wounds per. If it's per spore mine, and a unit has 3, that's 3D3 per unit of spore mines, with 3-5 sitting nearby that's 9d3-15d3 mortal wounds before the fight starts - enough to severely damage a WK or an IK to the point that you may or may not care about its continued survival. But since it plops down outside of 3" away this isnt workable, so they are instead severely irritating distractions that must be shot. Not exactly what I was so excited about at first but it's serviceable. Spore Mines has 2D6" charge from what I can tell, so yeah expect a few 4" charges. If nothing else good to soak some Overwatch, if it survives it locks down further Overwatch. You won't be doing much damage though, since Harpy and Biovore misses only produce 1 model per miss. But it's something. Tyranids, the chipping faction.
|
|
|
Post by N.I.B. on Jun 1, 2017 20:46:23 GMT
Just shoot something else, instead of what you intend to charge. Forgot it was a thing now, cheers
|
|
|
Post by gigasnail on Jun 1, 2017 21:11:22 GMT
I want to see so hausperex and exocrine conversions. That model is so (please do not swear) monopose it makes my eyes bleed. Show me the money.
|
|
|
Post by Threeshades on Jun 1, 2017 21:14:45 GMT
I want to see so hausperex and exocrine conversions. That model is so (please do not swear) monopose it makes my eyes bleed. Show me the money. I don't have the model, but now that they are good, i might just get one or two, once i do i will let you know what i did with them (i usually try to get my big models away from the default pose, even if that involves cutting them up)
|
|
|
Post by bolk on Jun 1, 2017 21:42:47 GMT
Yeah with the way wounds and damage work now, 8th ed is going to be all about applying the right unit against the right enemy target. The Haruspex frankly is probably going to be terrible against large infantry squads, as the multi-damage wounds he does will be wasted against single-wound models. Maybe the additional Shovelling Claws attacks make him better against infantry, but I feel like the 2 x Str feature of them is just way overkill. He's probably going to be an elite killer, able to dish out massive amounts of wounds to higher toughness/wounds models reliably, and heal when he kills them. He's got more potential hits than any other MC in this codex. It's 4D3 hits with D3 damage meaning 2 wound randoms still get pwned instead of soaking extra wounds. He'll be a good general purpose unit, that tanks better than most MCs due to having T8, 13 Wounds, and the chance to restoring 2 wounds every player's turn. He'll eat everything from plebians single wound horde infantry to medium sized multi-wound infantry to elite low model count infantry to certain mid-T single model units. Definitely better than the Fex who is just a cheap battering ram that you ram down the enemy's throat. In fact, his elite killing attack is actually not able to heal him - he's very squarely able to handle both types to a certain degree, but will die to anything dedicated. He probably wants to be in hordes the most. Hmm, there's nothing stopping him from directing those extra Shoveling claws attacks from Ravening Maw to other enemy units in the same combat, or am I mistaken?
|
|
|
Post by kjolnir on Jun 2, 2017 0:14:01 GMT
He's got more potential hits than any other MC in this codex. It's 4D3 hits with D3 damage meaning 2 wound randoms still get pwned instead of soaking extra wounds. He'll be a good general purpose unit, that tanks better than most MCs due to having T8, 13 Wounds, and the chance to restoring 2 wounds every player's turn. He'll eat everything from plebians single wound horde infantry to medium sized multi-wound infantry to elite low model count infantry to certain mid-T single model units. Definitely better than the Fex who is just a cheap battering ram that you ram down the enemy's throat. In fact, his elite killing attack is actually not able to heal him - he's very squarely able to handle both types to a certain degree, but will die to anything dedicated. He probably wants to be in hordes the most. Hmm, there's nothing stopping him from directing those extra Shoveling claws attacks from Ravening Maw to other enemy units in the same combat, or am I mistaken? You are correct, presuming there are other units to redirect them to. Situational, but not an unforeseeable situation.
|
|
|
Post by russellr on Jun 2, 2017 10:27:47 GMT
regarding the heavy rock drill:
I wrote a program that did a million tests.
Each time the weapon deals 1 damage, it deals an average of 1.77 mortal wounds, due to the 2+ 3+ etc mechanic. Thus we can say that on average, the weapon's damage is 2.77 at AP-3, versus the cutter's 2 damage at AP-4
|
|
|
Post by No One on Jun 2, 2017 11:42:56 GMT
Post by russellr on 39 minutes ago regarding the heavy rock drill: I wrote a program that did a million tests. Each time the weapon deals 1 damage, it deals an average of 1.77 mortal wounds, due to the 2+ 3+ etc mechanic. Thus we can say that on average, the weapon's damage is 2.77 at AP-3, versus the cutter's 2 damage at AP-4 Thanks for confirmation - I get the same average of 1.77 extra mortal wounds if a wound is dealt. Once you take into account saves: against T7 3+ (i.e. probably most common), cutter does 1.04 wounds, while drill does 0.86 (both before 'damage'). That multiplies to 2.07 and 2.40. But, drill is more expensive - adding 9/11s of an acolyte (~0.41) gives 2.48 vs 2.4. Very marginal, but still - it's only against 4+ sv vehicles that it's better (2.57 vs 2.88). Possibly some invuls, but T6 4++ is the same (assuming enough wounds that it bypasses the cutter special rule) - haven't fixed invuls to do more comprehensive testing on the acos, which are really the deciding factor (since a drill will out damage a cutter against any multi-wound model that isn't a low wound count non-vehicle - or 2W vehicle. It's just the fact that it's non-marginally more expensive that hurts it).
|
|
|
Post by nighttail on Jun 2, 2017 16:06:03 GMT
I have a question. If an ork were to shoot at a lictor with a venomthrope nearby, would he be capable of hitting? Orks hit on 5s, and the venomthrope as well as lictor both give -1 to hit, for a total of -2. So a to hit roll of 6 would be a 4, which would not be enough for the ork to hit the lictor. I can't find any mention in the core rules that a to hit roll of 6 always succeeds, but it does specifically mention that a roll of 1 always fails regardless of modifiers. This would also mean that lictors are immune to being hit by vehicles that normally hit on 6s, since Chameleonic skin works against all hits and not just shooting.
|
|
|
Post by mattblowers on Jun 2, 2017 16:11:12 GMT
I have a question. If an ork were to shoot at a lictor with a venomthrope nearby, would he be capable of hitting? Orks hit on 5s, and the venomthrope as well as lictor both give -1 to hit, for a total of -2. So a to hit roll of 6 would be a 4, which would not be enough for the ork to hit the lictor. I can't find any mention in the core rules that a to hit roll of 6 always succeeds, but it does specifically mention that a roll of 1 always fails regardless of modifiers. This would also mean that lictors are immune to being hit by vehicles that normally hit on 6s, since Chameleonic skin works against all hits and not just shooting. They would not unless they have a rule to add +1. It states a roll of 1 always misses, but not that a 6 always hits.
|
|
|
Post by Aux on Jun 2, 2017 16:13:20 GMT
Exocrine or Tyrannofex right now for a ranged heavy choice? Not sure which one I should test out (I picked up a Heirodule as a count as lol). I've never used an Exocrine in 7th either.
|
|