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Post by Hive Bahamut on Apr 11, 2017 19:10:04 GMT
I've been an advocate for these guys since release. There are some hard counters but that's not really any different than any army (without BB schenaniginary,) and even against tailored lists I have been able to win consistently.
They have all the tools needed to kill what's across the table, and unlike Tyranids in their current state, there is nothing the opponent can put down that your best answer is "ignore it."
Lots of fun to play, and wonderful models. They are the first army to break the price per point ratio though, so they aren't the cheapest horde..
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Post by nidzy on Apr 11, 2017 20:04:02 GMT
I've been an advocate for these guys since release. There are some hard counters but that's not really any different than any army (without BB schenaniginary,) and even against tailored lists I have been able to win consistently. They have all the tools needed to kill what's across the table, and unlike Tyranids in their current state, there is nothing the opponent can put down that your best answer is "ignore it." Lots of fun to play, and wonderful models. They are the first army to break the price per point ratio though, so they aren't the cheapest horde.. I think you hit it on the head for me here. The most important way this army has held up for me is that they are a lot of fun. I recently played a list against a DA player that was running a fluffy list: 5th company walking DA with a squad of dreadnoughts and a bunch of overwatch at full ballistic skill. This guy had been eaten up by the other lists he faced in the little tournament we were playing (see my world cup thread elsewhere) but I decided to skip flyrants and run a brood cycle and a sub up with first curse even though I knew flyrants would crush his list. I lost, mostly because of bad luck in him rolling to infiltrate first with scouts and my lack of 6's to CA the whole game. However, the game was ridiculously fun. He killed models all game, and I brought them back with the CI rules. Seriously, for 3 turns while I tried to set up a good position to make a push he killed 20+ models and I brought them back. IN the end I had models where I needed them to be to win and came up a little short. There are ways to run this army more competitive, but unlike nids I have consistently felt like I had a chance with any of the lists I am putting out there to do three things: Score, threaten any model I am facing and compete for the whole game.
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Post by purestrain on Apr 11, 2017 21:10:36 GMT
Maybe you shouldn't go around telling people what they can do with their money just because you vs different people. You know what doesn't work. Assault units vs tau. Or trying to beat out space wolves in any contest. That's my meta bro. My Eldar buddy doesn't bring his wk anymore because it's just bs with eldari I'm not telling you what you can or can't do with your money. I'm just telling you the army may not be right for you. Unless you're dealing with eternal war meta like me where you kill or you die and score nothing, where the standard GSC play is roll 6 or dont go near them, there should always be something you can do to improve your situation. Its 150 bodies, disposable bodies mind you, to do stuff with. If you can't find a use for them, something is very wrong somewhere. Mind you. Soulburst is strong, but it's not OP. Unless they are dying, they have to be within 7" of your dying unit to trigger. How many Elder want to be in this range of any army? So no, not bringing an easy to kill with grav GMC because "eldari is stupid" isn't much more than anecdotal evidence. Similarly, space wolves have 1-2 killer contest units. The rest of it isn't all that different from standard marines, which GSC can pressure and eat up. Demons though, I'll grant that one as crazy to handle. Princes and bloodthristers and seekers and nettes just plow through everything. With more incoming every turn. Bloody nuts. what you gonna do vs murderfang first turn heavy flamers ur truck and it and the boys inside go bye bye. Or the super lightning (please do not swear) squad with the guy making the attack the bs5 guy with a helm of durfast on. Can you actually stop a three pack of shield dreadnaught from murdering your face with cult? How about a bunch of cavalry with th/ss because hate xenos. I see you haven't had the luxury of having a cloud strike drop 3 dark reaper packs inside your face and turn you to mulch yet I'm not saying I can't win with them,I have. But saying they have abilities nids don't doesn't make sense when you can just fmc the (please do not swear) out of cult and they have no chance. Bring flamers or ignore cover guns and they are worse, statwise. When you still need to fish for decent psychic powers and pay out the ass to get more, granted, they are better than pothm. I enjoy playing cult, I find it amusing to play nids... my two cents (worthless in my country technically )
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Apr 11, 2017 22:38:50 GMT
Although it was a technicality and couldn't happen off Infiltrate (my only game rolling that many 6's) Coteaz and an Aquila kill team successfully killed over 740 points in a 1500 list my very first game, before the game even started. I learned quick with GSC that there are units that are bonkers in terms of match ups.
They are a fun functional army, that has a shot at higher end, but still will come short against some wrecking ball combos. A smart Tau player should never lose against the Cult, and certain Deathstar/Ignore Cover armies are a nightmare as well. I have been making it a personal challenge of mine to see how MANY different list types I can come up with that aren't auto-lose. So far the only idea that reeks of stupid is spamming Aberrants. Every unit in this codex has a place, and although some are weaker (Sentinels and Aberrants especially,) there is no unit that will make you lose by using it.
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Post by hiveminded on Apr 12, 2017 1:07:05 GMT
That's good to know, I know I gotta bite the bullet and set up some time. Maybe I'll wait until I've got too many models painted to back out Just go for it. It's just a game after all. If you wait too long the edition will switch over and you will have missed the chance to play them in their current state. Their is no guarantee they will continue to be as good as they are now. This is a very good point. The edition is about to roll over to 8th. There is absolutely no guarantee that GSC will have the same "power level" after the edition change. They could be just as strong....they could be better....they could be much much worse. Just to say it, the mainstream codexes (Eldar, SM, Tau, etc.) get regular updates and will be brought up to date after a new edition drops. Less mainstream armies like Sisters, BA, DE, and Nids can sometimes be hit very hard by a new edition and languish for years until new rules are released. In my opinion, GSC fits into this latter category of a niche codex. I'd reckon that GSC is more likely than not to fall down the power curve after the release of 8th, not move up it. Starting a cult army is a big investment....the models aren't cheap and it takes a huge commitment of time to paint up a horde army. It also takes a lot of play time to become familiar with the rules and nuances of the codex. If you start collecting the models now, you'd likely not get many games in with your new army before 8th edition drops. To the OP....my advice is that if you like the GSC for their fluff, then jump in with two feet. If you're looking for an army that is competitive, I'd suggest waiting until after 8th is released to see what impact the rules changes have on the cult codex. Just my two cents.
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Post by kazetanade on Apr 12, 2017 2:25:23 GMT
I'm not telling you what you can or can't do with your money. I'm just telling you the army may not be right for you. Unless you're dealing with eternal war meta like me where you kill or you die and score nothing, where the standard GSC play is roll 6 or dont go near them, there should always be something you can do to improve your situation. Its 150 bodies, disposable bodies mind you, to do stuff with. If you can't find a use for them, something is very wrong somewhere. Mind you. Soulburst is strong, but it's not OP. Unless they are dying, they have to be within 7" of your dying unit to trigger. How many Elder want to be in this range of any army? So no, not bringing an easy to kill with grav GMC because "eldari is stupid" isn't much more than anecdotal evidence. Similarly, space wolves have 1-2 killer contest units. The rest of it isn't all that different from standard marines, which GSC can pressure and eat up. Demons though, I'll grant that one as crazy to handle. Princes and bloodthristers and seekers and nettes just plow through everything. With more incoming every turn. Bloody nuts. what you gonna do vs murderfang first turn heavy flamers ur truck and it and the boys inside go bye bye. Or the super lightning (please do not swear) squad with the guy making the attack the bs5 guy with a helm of durfast on. Can you actually stop a three pack of shield dreadnaught from murdering your face with cult? How about a bunch of cavalry with th/ss because hate xenos. I see you haven't had the luxury of having a cloud strike drop 3 dark reaper packs inside your face and turn you to mulch yet I'm not saying I can't win with them,I have. But saying they have abilities nids don't doesn't make sense when you can just fmc the (please do not swear) out of cult and they have no chance. Bring flamers or ignore cover guns and they are worse, statwise. When you still need to fish for decent psychic powers and pay out the ass to get more, granted, they are better than pothm. I enjoy playing cult, I find it amusing to play nids... my two cents (worthless in my country technically ) Granted I have not. No idea what's happening over there because the space wolf player here gets steamrolled by almost everyone not wearing training wheels. But hey, if you like playing cult and you don't mind what you are painting out to be abuse then go ahead and spend your money on it. As far as most people here and myself are concerned, there is almost no situation cult can't be effective at the game unless you've really done goof your list, your positioning, or got straight up tailor countered. Or are playing Tau. Which again brings up the question of what games you're getting or what people you're playing. Short of saying how you're playing because of course I don't know how you're playing I just assume you know what you're doing.
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Post by purestrain on Apr 12, 2017 15:56:16 GMT
what you gonna do vs murderfang first turn heavy flamers ur truck and it and the boys inside go bye bye. Or the super lightning (please do not swear) squad with the guy making the attack the bs5 guy with a helm of durfast on. Can you actually stop a three pack of shield dreadnaught from murdering your face with cult? How about a bunch of cavalry with th/ss because hate xenos. I see you haven't had the luxury of having a cloud strike drop 3 dark reaper packs inside your face and turn you to mulch yet I'm not saying I can't win with them,I have. But saying they have abilities nids don't doesn't make sense when you can just fmc the (please do not swear) out of cult and they have no chance. Bring flamers or ignore cover guns and they are worse, statwise. When you still need to fish for decent psychic powers and pay out the ass to get more, granted, they are better than pothm. I enjoy playing cult, I find it amusing to play nids... my two cents (worthless in my country technically ) Granted I have not. No idea what's happening over there because the space wolf player here gets steamrolled by almost everyone not wearing training wheels. But hey, if you like playing cult and you don't mind what you are painting out to be abuse then go ahead and spend your money on it. As far as most people here and myself are concerned, there is almost no situation cult can't be effective at the game unless you've really done goof your list, your positioning, or got straight up tailor countered. Or are playing Tau. Which again brings up the question of what games you're getting or what people you're playing. Short of saying how you're playing because of course I don't know how you're playing I just assume you know what you're doing. AV 15 land raider with that shield terminator squad that gets +1t when they are touching. Av 13/14 dreads (14 from bjyorn) with Helfrost guns. And yes, I play against tau a lot. Three different friends play them About the skycloud, once it happens, you won't be happy.
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Post by almostmercury on Apr 13, 2017 13:09:52 GMT
I've had difficulty killing kinghts. If you're really just up against dreads, I would recommend single saws hanging out in your units. Taking just one saw with a unit is not as effective when the target has 6 hp and stomps, but it should be just fine against a 3hp dread. Remember your fearless bubble and hatred bubbles if its an issue.
I played a game against a SW Dread army. I don't recall the setup, but I ate the dreads alive and I'm betting all of the SW dreads have many of the same problems as other dreads.
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Post by mattblowers on Apr 13, 2017 13:25:28 GMT
I've had difficulty killing kinghts. One of the reasons I recommend a flyrant-GSC combo.
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Post by almostmercury on Apr 13, 2017 17:29:21 GMT
Oh yeah. Flyrants all the way and they usually do most of the work for me.
My point is that if Knights are were the buck can stop, Dreads should be a bit of a push over (unless you're talking contemptors), but even those are not as good as a knight.
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Post by purestrain on Apr 13, 2017 19:19:26 GMT
I've had difficulty killing kinghts. If you're really just up against dreads, I would recommend single saws hanging out in your units. Taking just one saw with a unit is not as effective when the target has 6 hp and stomps, but it should be just fine against a 3hp dread. Remember your fearless bubble and hatred bubbles if its an issue. I played a game against a SW Dread army. I don't recall the setup, but I ate the dreads alive and I'm betting all of the SW dreads have many of the same problems as other dreads. Wolf dreads can have a frost axe/frost shield combo (3+ invuln to front arc plus it counts as a ccw) they're also all venerable. Bjorn and his crew get 5+ and have Helfrost cannons. It's not exactly what I'd call easy pickings. Especially with technomancy or whatever it's called
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Post by bronyzro on Apr 14, 2017 3:56:23 GMT
When it comes to 8th most of what we have is rampant speculation. However, one of the few confirmed things we have is Save Modifiers, and I think that means mostly good things for us.
It'll make most of our med-heavy weapons very good against MEQ, for starters. Anything that relies on a save, really. We've got twin-linked autocannons out the wazoo, and if Save Modifiers are a thing then those are gonna be -2 for sure.
It'll make Iconwards waaay more valuable too. FNP will make be a much bigger deal, even our off-brand 6+ kind. Finally, unless they drop Flak to 6+ like in SW, then we'll get our saves against a lot more things than we used to.
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Post by almostmercury on Apr 14, 2017 14:31:54 GMT
I've had difficulty killing kinghts. If you're really just up against dreads, I would recommend single saws hanging out in your units. Taking just one saw with a unit is not as effective when the target has 6 hp and stomps, but it should be just fine against a 3hp dread. Remember your fearless bubble and hatred bubbles if its an issue. I played a game against a SW Dread army. I don't recall the setup, but I ate the dreads alive and I'm betting all of the SW dreads have many of the same problems as other dreads. Wolf dreads can have a frost axe/frost shield combo (3+ invuln to front arc plus it counts as a ccw) they're also all venerable. Bjorn and his crew get 5+ and have Helfrost cannons. It's not exactly what I'd call easy pickings. Especially with technomancy or whatever it's called I mean, I'm running 12 guys per unit and with Hatred that should often be enough even with a save, especially if you run saws. Are you doing MSU? I mean, the other part of my list that rolled over the dreads were the flyrants. Dreads just die in droves to flyrants, especially melee dreads. Maybe you're looking for a pure GSC experience? I'm not sure. I can only really speculate as well. I don't know the terrain, missions, decisions, etc, etc...
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Post by kazetanade on Apr 14, 2017 14:35:43 GMT
to be fair with a 3+ and 3HP each (I guess? Since they're oh so very special), getting the kill on the Dreadnought would be about as difficult as getting the kill on the Imperial Knight.
Running double saws + normal rends would maul it but who knows. All in all it sounds really expensive and should be possible to still do stuff even with 20 less bodies to fund your saws. But at this point I just assume that he knows what he's doing and that it really is just that difficult to deal with for his meta, because individual metas can be hard to work with. Like mine with 0 scoring til end of the game.
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Post by almostmercury on Apr 14, 2017 17:52:07 GMT
Rear AV 10, that's where I could hit it.
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