Do Tyranids need to take out the negative of Synapse?

[slithernaut]

Sept 4, 2016 17:29:14 GMT blackrainbow said:

Sept 4, 2016 15:57:07 GMT slithernaut said:

Remember when fleet was a special rule for only Tyranids and Eldar?

That's great for GW, and gaming: trying out new rules. Lets things grow if it works, or if not then wait for the next edition and get rid of it. But the balance here is lost when something does work and is cool and is then spread through-out the game. Not so special, just another rule to know. This could be solved by play-testing a bit more, or in GW's case, at all.

But back then, fleet was simply moving during the shooting phase, aka running.

[blackrainbow]

Ah-cha, gotcha. Though it has changed over the editions, I thoroughly stand by the idea that GW needs to, specifically indipentand or at least with dedicated people, and not random staff at lunch for White Dwarf articles.

[rpricew]

Sept 4, 2016 17:37:27 GMT gigasnail said:

And I will reiterate : I don't really care what the rules are called. I care what they do. Army wide debuffs for no reason other than poorly thought out fluff is stupid. There must be a balancing buff of something to factor in, or playing the army will just be an exercise in mitigating these debuffs.

~snip.

I believe that GW over values "FEARLESS" that Tyranids get as an army buff. In the same vein, they completely undervalue "ATSKNF" that Marines get. When they are hiding in their closet (design room) and calculating the math behind a unit's/ability's/weapon's value in game.. I believe that they are doing it in a vacuum and it's just hit or miss, as we have all seen.

As people have said... there needs to be way more playtesting done. Hopefully with the new changes to GW infrastructure and them participating in formal events, then they will start to see some of this feedback (FB/Live Events/etc.) and realize more of the mistakes that are made.

However, I do not think it is going to happen yet, if the new CSM leaks are to be believed. GW does not realize what is wrong with CSM and they added benefits to units that didn't really need them while not addressing the core problems with the actual Chaos Space Marine. This means that GW probably doesn't know what's wrong with the Tyranid codex/units/synapse and until they do... they will not be able to fix it.

I think it's our responsibility as a gaming community to take every chance that GW is giving us to give them positive feedback and suggestions (not whining and moaning) as to how to make Tyranids more (fun/better) to play as a whole.

They are listening on the FB pages, we should take to them en masse and deliver our message of change. Send them fandex ideas, post up 'what would be cool if' this unit did examples... (e.g. Trygon's arriving turn 1), give them feedback while they are still listening.

We have a voice... it's possible that most of the things will be ignored, but it seems like they want to listen... so what do we have to lose other than more of the same, which we will get if we don't speak up anyway.

all just my $0.02... ymmv

[gigasnail]

For sure.

[jesses]

Aug 23, 2016 8:00:37 GMT gingerwerewolf said:

I really like the idea of unit specific buffs through Synapse, however, the complexity it would add would be substantial.

What if a Unit is within Synapse of Multiple different types? Does it get only one? All? How would your enemy know which one you meant to take?
What Combinations are there, and at what point is the Bonus Calculated?

Maybe, rather than IB being a problem, you instead make it so that a unit has fixed special rules when it is in Synapse.

So when a Termagant is in Synapse it has counterattack, no matter if the synapse is a Tervigon, or Zoanthrope of Hive Tyrant.
Hormagaunts are Beasts when in Synapse.
Etc Etc.

It loses that special ability when not in Synapse.

EG Carrot not Stick!

This. 1000% this, but simplified. The Hive Mind is all about control, so take that "control" away in the most GAME appropriate manner.

Synapse - All Tyranids units in Synapse are Fearless.
IB - a Tyranid under instinctive behaviour never counts as a scoring unit.

When in Synapse:
IB (Feed) - Fearless + Counter-Attack.
IB (Lurk) - Fearless + Stealth.
IB (Hunt) - Fearless + Preferred Enemy.

This takes away the frustrating element of the player losing agency by losing control of their pieces but preserves the fluff that without Synapse you have no control. Without synapse those Hormagaunts aren't holding that objective, they just happen to be standing by it while they try and dig space-gophers out of the ground to eat.

[gigasnail]

^I really like this.

[blackrainbow]

Simple and fluffy, very nice jesses.

[cheesytom1]

Sept 8, 2016 2:25:09 GMT jesses said:

Aug 23, 2016 8:00:37 GMT gingerwerewolf said:

This. 1000% this, but simplified. The Hive Mind is all about control, so take that "control" away in the most GAME appropriate manner.

Synapse - All Tyranids units in Synapse are Fearless.
IB - a Tyranid under instinctive behaviour never counts as a scoring unit.

When in Synapse:
IB (Feed) - Fearless + Counter-Attack.
IB (Lurk) - Fearless + Stealth.
IB (Hunt) - Fearless + Preferred Enemy.

This takes away the frustrating element of the player losing agency by losing control of their pieces but preserves the fluff that without Synapse you have no control. Without synapse those Hormagaunts aren't holding that objective, they just happen to be standing by it while they try and dig space-gophers out of the ground to eat.

Best Synapse/IB I've seen yet.

[hiveminded55]

I like jesses idea as well. I'd also like to see each synapse HQ choice add another bonus to that schema. Give the HQs some more flavour and distinction.

Tyrant - during opponent's shooting phase each unit within 12" that takes fire can first make a d6 consolidation move. This can happen once per unit, per opponent's shooting phase.
During friendly shooting phase the Tyrant can choose 2 friendly units within 12" of the tyrant, both units must resolve their shots at the same time at the same target. They gain +1BS. This can be done multiple times per friendly shooting phase; restricted by the # of units available in range.

Prime - each unit within 12", gets +1WS and each model gets an extra shot if within half range of weapon max distance (excludes barrage or blast weapons).

Tervigon - each unit of termagaunts within 12" has FNP. If a tervigon has menopaused and a unit of termagaunts within 12" is completely wiped out, the Tervigon may start breeding again on your next movement phase. Still subject to menopause if doubles are rolled again.

Swarmlord - each unit within 12" gives the swarm lord +1 ML Psyker. Max at +3. Each unit that started its movement phase within 12" can run and shoot (in either order) and attempt an assault with +1 attacks per model.

Some interesting flavours there. That would compliment the synapse suggestions above IMO. With the idea that the HQs were more unique. It would stack ontop of what you have above.

[gingerwerewolf]

Jesses idea is absolutely great. Simple and easy to remember, and most importantly a Carrot not a Stick

[rpricew]

I really like Jesse's Idea... however, looking at the units affected by IB, I feel like they need a little tweaking.  I mean, honestly... who really assaults our FEED units.  I like the idea of Counter Attack, but think that's where we need some kind of movement bonus instead like maybe a +3 to Run & Assault distance.  

Lurk: Fearless / Stealth (Shrouded if unit already has stealth)
Termagants
Deathleaper / Lictors (already have stealth)
Venomthropes (shrouded)

Hunt: Fearless / Preferred Enemy
Gargoyles
Hive Guard
Harpy
Biovore
Exocrine
Tyrannofex

Feed: Fearless / +3 To Run & Assault
Old One Eye / Carnifex
Hormagaunts
Rippers
Haruspex
Pyrovore
Raveners / Red Terror
Sky-Slashers
Hive Crone
Trygon
Mawloc

[jimmyp]

Some one should post that idea on the GW Facebook page, excellent idea. Well done dude!

[Davor]

Sept 4, 2016 1:56:30 GMT Hive Tyrant Qiln said:

Sept 3, 2016 19:26:17 GMT yoritomo said:

And if nobody is special then everybody ends up playing the same army.

Not exactly. Case in point - Horus Heresy.

God I'm like a broken clock now. "Play Horus Heresy guys! It's better than 40k in every way." In fact, I'll put it in my signature.

Thing is, I want to play Tyranids not Space Marines. If I want to play a better game I would be playing Warmahordes, X-wing or any other game out there. Thing is there is no Tyranids in any other game out there.

[Davor]

Sept 4, 2016 15:57:07 GMT slithernaut said:

Remember when fleet was a special rule for only Tyranids and Eldar?



Pepperidge farms remembers.

Oh yeah I clearly remember that. I having to pay for that while the Space Marines got it for free. We didn't even get a point reduction during that edition (5th was it?) so we actually had to pay more while everyone else but Eldar got it for free.

[Hunger]

Sept 8, 2016 2:25:09 GMT jesses said:

IB - a Tyranid under instinctive behaviour never counts as a scoring unit.

When in Synapse:
IB (Feed) - Fearless + Counter-Attack.
IB (Lurk) - Fearless + Stealth.
IB (Hunt) - Fearless + Preferred Enemy.

Spot on. +1 for this suggestion.

Sept 4, 2016 15:57:07 GMT slithernaut said:

Remember when fleet was a special rule for only Tyranids and Eldar?

I remember when it was a rule for only Eldar...