|
|
Post by emicrania on Sept 1, 2015 18:35:19 GMT
Hi guys!
As I'm doing my research and some foot work with some battles,after being gone from 40k for a while, I was wondering how do you guys pick what you pick and why.
Personally when I pick ab army is almost exclusively for fluff preference a d aestetichal look.
Than come in how to play them (semi)competitive without sacrifice all the fun for the sake of the victory.
However I'm still struggling on how to understand which unit is better and why,how much should I get for my points and on what you base your opinions.
For example why an exocrine is a worst choice of a mawloc and why.
Why buiyng AG for termagants is a waste of points or why hormagaunts are too expensive for some people or great for others.
I wonder cause even if I love jaysic idea of cc and basically my army is based on his 3d,still I'd like to put something more like mine personal choice,without being blind to all the good tips you guys leave around.
For example,do you compare model price with stats with other army or is än overall judgment from experience?
|
|
|
|
Post by gigasnail on Sept 1, 2015 18:44:20 GMT
Look at the unit, it's cost, and it's options. Can it do its job and not bleed points through the nose?
For example, Genestealers, when kitted out, are nine miles of bad highway. Extremely killy. However, they rely on cover saves to get into melee range and in today's environment, are too expensive and fragile to invest in. They're good at what they do, but cost too much and aren't tough/fast enough to get into the mix And be useful.
Exocrine is a poor choice because it just doesn't do its job well. Cost is ok, and that S7 AP2 assault:6 gun looks good and is a unique option for us, until you look at the rest of the picture. Medium rate of fire combined with mediocre BS and no twin linking or ignores cover means it's not very good at doing what it's meant to do. A dakkafex is better at everything an exocrine is supposed to be good at and is much, much better in combat on top of that, for comparable prices. It's a much better choice.
Mawlocks may have a lower rate of fire in a vacuum, but will nearly always be useful, are extremely mobile, and have that all important armor save negating ignores cover objective clearing paired blast, as well as being able to zap invisible units and units out of LoS.
buffs in general are too expensive on gribblies. AG for termagants is a waste, it's an assault buff on an objective grabbing shooting unit. Hormies are just ok, gargs do their job better.
|
|
|
|
Post by N.I.B. on Sept 1, 2015 21:01:37 GMT
It's not really that complicated. Units that don't need support from other units or from psychic powers that you might not roll, are good units. Units that provide something that no other unit can do (Mawlocs), are good units. Some units can do lots of stuff really well (Flyrants), they are good. Units that don't need support and can fulfil vital roles for winning games (Rippers) are good.
Local metas vary though, so you might do ok with lots of mediocre stuff.
|
|
|
|
Post by BattleMetalChris on Sept 3, 2015 11:46:20 GMT
Exocrine is a poor choice because it just doesn't do its job well. Cost is ok, and that S7 AP2 assault:6 gun looks good and is a unique option for us, until you look at the rest of the picture. Medium rate of fire combined with mediocre BS and no twin linking or ignores cover means it's not very good at doing what it's meant to do. A dakkafex is better at everything an exocrine is supposed to be good at and is much, much better in combat on top of that, for comparable prices. It's a much better choice. How do you rate it as part of a Living Artillery Node, where it gets to reroll scatter dice? |
|
|
|
Post by gigasnail on Sept 3, 2015 14:48:08 GMT
The scatter still has no ignores cover. Where are folks going to park models when there are biovores and exocrine dropping pieplates? Cover.
Also, they're dead because of grav and etc.
|
|
|
|
Post by emicrania on Sept 3, 2015 17:12:01 GMT
It's not really that complicated. Units that don't need support from other units or from psychic powers that you might not roll, are good units. Units that provide something that no other unit can do (Mawlocs), are good units. Some units can do lots of stuff really well (Flyrants), they are good. Units that don't need support and can fulfil vital roles for winning games (Rippers) are good. Local metas vary though, so you might do ok with lots of mediocre stuff. Ok,how 10 termagants are worst than a ripper swarm? Is a wound more,they shoot got better ws and better I ,yes u can DS,but with that ld they will just eat themselves up. Or.....? |
|
|
|
Post by gigasnail on Sept 3, 2015 17:13:50 GMT
It's not that why won't eat themselves, it's that it doesn't matter because they are multi wound models.
|
|
|
|
Post by emicrania on Sept 3, 2015 18:20:35 GMT
I missed that,typical newbie mistake  |
|
|
|
Post by Kark on Sept 3, 2015 18:40:53 GMT
(...) I was wondering how do you guys pick what you pick and why. (...) However I'm still struggling on how to understand which unit is better and why,how much should I get for my points and on what you base your opinions. (...) do you compare model price with stats with other army or is än overall judgment from experience? Hello, first of all You should know that tyranids have issues with its special rule called instinctive behaviour. Other armies have reanimation protocols, powerful psychic powers, free transports, chapter tactics, doctrines, battle focus and so on. These are things that make other factions overall better in some way. Tyranids however have special rule that makes them worse  If IB units are out of synapse they have to take a test and if they failed it (with low ld6 that is very probable), they would have 50% chance to act against Your favour, they would either start killing themselves, falling back or go to ground. So the key to build effective army with tyranids is to minimize the possibility of such incidence. Overall it is good to build army with: -Synapse Creatures - Hive Tyrants, Shrikes, Zoanthropes etc. These bugs are naturally fearless and they will never act crazy -Units not subjected to instinctive behaviour - genestealers, mucolids, spore mines, tyrannocytes etc. These units will never take any IB tests. -Ld10 models - Lictors, Harpies, Hive Crones. Ld10 means that passing IB tests is very easy and it is very probable that a unit will act normally. -Single models with IB feed - mawlocs, toxicrenes, haruspexes, carnifexes and so on. Single model, even when it fails IB test, will always assault closest target. This IB is not that bad, especially that You are free to move in the movement phase. Mawloc is extra safe as he can simply burrow. Carnifex with devourers can be tricky as failed IB test will prevent him from shooting. -Monstrous Creatures with IB hunt - tyrannofexes, exocrines, harpies etc. These monsters can't go to ground so they will act normally or shoot at closest enemy (remember that You are free to move in movement phase) when they fail IB test. -Units with IB hunt - gargoyles, biovores, hive guards etc. The worst thing that could happen here is go to ground. Good news is that You can move Your synapse creature first and get gtg units within synapse range, making them fearless. This means that gtg units no longer suffer the consequences of that behaviour and are free to move, shoot or run and even assault. Here look out for gargoyles. They may be forced to shoot at closest enemy and be unable to assault. -Use imperial bastion - bastion is a building and (in most clarifications) tyranid units inside buildings don't test IB. Such bastion is a perfect place for venomthrope. He will give shrouded from bastion edges, be very safe in AV14 building, can man comms relay and hold objectives It is also good idea not to include units that rely strongly on synapse and here I mean gaunts. Termagants and hormagaunts are easy to get rid off if they lose their synapse support (either by synapse removal or pilling in and moving out of synapse bubble). Without fearless gaunts will most likely fall back everytime they suffer casualties. As for troops it is best to use: -Mucolids - cheapest option that can unlock more flyrants  and save points for other monstrosities -Ripper Swarms - with deepstrike option, they can land and secure objectives, possibly line breaker and are quite easy to hide out of LOS (enemy won't be able to shoot at them in most cases). I hope I helped a little |
|
|
|
Post by topaxygourouni on Sept 3, 2015 20:05:26 GMT
It's not really that complicated. Units that don't need support from other units or from psychic powers that you might not roll, are good units. Units that provide something that no other unit can do (Mawlocs), are good units. Some units can do lots of stuff really well (Flyrants), they are good. Units that don't need support and can fulfil vital roles for winning games (Rippers) are good. Local metas vary though, so you might do ok with lots of mediocre stuff. Ok,how 10 termagants are worst than a ripper swarm? Is a wound more,they shoot got better ws and better I ,yes u can DS,but with that ld they will just eat themselves up. Or.....? Deepstrike is actually a big thing when you are a denying unit. I also really like to give my rippers spinefists. The amount of damage a unit of 4 can do is unexpected of their lowly stature and fr some werd reason they always seem to overperform. Once i dropped a unit of 4 next to a warp spider unit who kept jumping around. Little guys produced their pistols, bam 4 spyders dead and the barrels were still hot. Good times... |
|
|
|
Post by emicrania on Sept 3, 2015 20:54:30 GMT
Did I miss something or the behavior of the rippers has been FAQ'd ?
As it stands it says that unit composed of 1 model count the result as 4-5. He ripper swarm is a unit of 3 so should get 3 hit,right?
|
|
|
|
Post by gloomfang on Sept 3, 2015 21:27:11 GMT
Rippers are really bad at killing themselves. They take 3 Hits, but the chances are you will only do one wound. As they have multiple wounds you can play around for a while and not lose a base. Also when you get to the last base they stop taking hits as they are a single modle .
|
|
|
|
Post by Kark on Sept 3, 2015 21:37:04 GMT
And rippers are fearless so they will never fall back and leave the objective.
|
|
|
|
Post by topaxygourouni on Sept 3, 2015 22:24:27 GMT
Rippers are bros man... They are just bros.
|
|
|
|
Post by BattleMetalChris on Sept 3, 2015 23:06:59 GMT
Yeah, I've been getting great results from even a small swarm of Rippers, having them pop up late game and just mess stuff up, synapse-be-damned. Does anyone run spinefists on Rippers? Against GEQ (I most play against Tau) they're great as you can shoot stuff on the turn they deepstrike in and aren't sat there doing nothing.
|
|
If IB units are out of synapse they have to take a test and if they failed it (with low ld6 that is very probable), they would have 50% chance to act against Your favour, they would either start killing themselves, falling back or go to ground. So the key to build effective army with tyranids is to minimize the possibility of such incidence.
and save points for other monstrosities 