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Post by lazarusparadox on Aug 3, 2015 20:41:45 GMT
Hello everyone!
So I've been playing against more and more SM/CSM lately. One of my friends even just got a sexy new Grey Knights army recently so I'm sure I'll be facing a ton of them in the future as well now. So my question is as Nids, what have been your most successful tools thus far for dealing with 3+, 2+ armor?
My personal "knee jerk reaction" has been to take at least 2 if not 3 Flying Dakkarants and just lay on the fire power. My Exocrine is in the mail which is another seemingly straight forward answer to me, With S7 AP2 and 2 firing modes (assault 6 or large blast) on paper it seems like our best anti MEQ shooting. Only thing that bugs me about the Exocrine is the 24'' range. Living "artillery" at bolter range? Come on GW. I was also thinking about running Mawlocks with their S6 AP2 large blast "Terror from the Deep", it's up to two rounds of damage (depending on if you kill enough to come up the first time) and then in theory you now have a MC in the middle of their unit, but at WS 3 I'm not sure how effective they are in actual combat.
I didn't know if any of y'all had any personal experience with these units or have found something I haven't even thought of. (more than likely)
And last but not least, With summoning Demons on the rise and my buddies new Grey Knights, anyone have tips for dealing with deepstrike? Do I keep some meleefexes or genestealers in the back to counter attack?
Thanks for your thoughts,
- Laz
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Post by rroach on Aug 3, 2015 23:50:28 GMT
Sporefield Formation. Max out the Spore mine clusters and go full 2" coherency. Place them in front whomever you don't want shot at from Deep Striking units. Space them so a Drop Pod can't fit legally in between the clusters. With Infiltrate, you can get a 11" by 12" (I think?) square of denial out in front of your deployment zone. Even larger, if they're looking to avoid a charge from the Spores. You can also use this, with terrain, to force them to land where you want. You can put the Mucolids further downrange to further harass Drop Pods, or put them on objectives.
Just be sure that any of your units caught behind the Spores can get away freely, if you need to move them.
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Post by jurassicpork on Aug 4, 2015 0:10:08 GMT
Sporefield Formation. Max out the Spore mine clusters and go full 2" coherency. Place them in front whomever you don't want shot at from Deep Striking units. Space them so a Drop Pod can't fit legally in between the clusters. With Infiltrate, you can get a 11" by 12" (I think?) square of denial out in front of your deployment zone. Even larger, if they're looking to avoid a charge from the Spores. You can also use this, with terrain, to force them to land where you want. You can put the Mucolids further downrange to further harass Drop Pods, or put them on objectives. Just be sure that any of your units caught behind the Spores can get away freely, if you need to move them. Even better is leaving spots big enough for a pod to land, but not for the squad inside to disembark. |
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Post by phayze on Aug 4, 2015 0:27:50 GMT
My close friend plays grey knights so I know all about the douchbaggery that goes on. An exocrine at first will seem like a good idea,and it may be, especially if you use it as a counter to turn 1 deepstrikes from their nemesis strike force detachment.
Unfortunately, it's just another 3+ MC. Which grey knights are masters of killing.
Something I find very useful, if you know you are going up against grey knights, is to kit out a flyrant for melee and go dread knight hunting. Seriously, fully kitted out, a melyrant can shred through a dread knight before it can strike back.
If you know he will be deepstriking stock terminators with an attached librarian, a counter-deep striking mawloc will erase the unit like it wasn't even there. (Bonus points if they forget to run out of their base-to-base clump after deepstriking!)
Paladins with draigo, good luck. I really don't have an answer to these... multiple mawlocs? Crone coven apoc formation? Massed Medusa cannon fire?
Purifiers are difficult to handle with their witchfires, especially if you play that novas can hit swooping fmc's.
Goodluck!
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Post by phayze on Aug 4, 2015 0:30:14 GMT
Forgot! Interceptors with incinerators are a pain to handle as well. Any of his squads he can combat squad out, giving him another unit of psychic brotherhood, and another warp charge in the psychic phase, so watch out.
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Post by rroach on Aug 4, 2015 1:28:36 GMT
Sporefield Formation. Max out the Spore mine clusters and go full 2" coherency. Place them in front whomever you don't want shot at from Deep Striking units. Space them so a Drop Pod can't fit legally in between the clusters. With Infiltrate, you can get a 11" by 12" (I think?) square of denial out in front of your deployment zone. Even larger, if they're looking to avoid a charge from the Spores. You can also use this, with terrain, to force them to land where you want. You can put the Mucolids further downrange to further harass Drop Pods, or put them on objectives. Just be sure that any of your units caught behind the Spores can get away freely, if you need to move them. Even better is leaving spots big enough for a pod to land, but not for the squad inside to disembark. I wonder what's the biggest possible area of denial you can create with three max-sized Spore Mine clusters? |
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Post by lazarusparadox on Aug 4, 2015 1:41:55 GMT
Sporefield Formation. Max out the Spore mine clusters and go full 2" coherency. Place them in front whomever you don't want shot at from Deep Striking units. Space them so a Drop Pod can't fit legally in between the clusters. With Infiltrate, you can get a 11" by 12" (I think?) square of denial out in front of your deployment zone. Even larger, if they're looking to avoid a charge from the Spores. You can also use this, with terrain, to force them to land where you want. You can put the Mucolids further downrange to further harass Drop Pods, or put them on objectives. Just be sure that any of your units caught behind the Spores can get away freely, if you need to move them. This is fascinating! I forget that sporemines can even be used like this! Lol like I said before, I was sure at LEAST 1 solution was going to be something that I had never even thought of before! Also, I think Jurassicpork (great name btw) was onto something with leaving an area to land but not disembark. I'm trying to remember from my brief time playing Necrons what the rules are for that. Do the units get destroyed or was that an Eternity Gate thing that I'm mis-remembering? Either way keeping them contained alone would be worth it. OK awesome, thanks for the feedback Phayze! Yeah GK have proven a bit tricky thus far but I'm working on it. I'm really glad to hear about melee tyrants being able to take on Dread Knights, my buddy owns 2 of them. And yes, I've already felt the wrath of snowballing GK Psychic phases as I loose my Psychers and more and more of his come out of reserves. I can see where you're coming from with the Exocrine having problems against Grey Knights, is it still a solid unit in general though? I just bought one New in Box and its in the mail as we speak. Should I build it into a Haruspex instead? I know 24'' shooting isn't the best but I figured we should take AP 2 wherever we can get it. |
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Post by phayze on Aug 4, 2015 2:10:33 GMT
The exocrine is definitely more useful against grey knights than the harusfpetx is, but the problem comes with its size. It's an mc with an AP2 shooting attack. He WILL focus down the exocrine first, shunting nearby and assaulting as soon as he can with his dreadknights.
Interesting, if you can deny his psychic phase, a regenerating haruspex can be used to tie down almost all of his heavy hitters (besides dreadknights and draigo crew) but ONLY IF you get the charge, and deny his psychic buffs to the squad. Acid blood, his stacking attacks buff, and regenerating wounds on unbuffed terminators/paladins does wonders. If he doesn't kill them, they will be stuck in combat until he can commit some more support to it.
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Post by gigasnail on Aug 4, 2015 2:22:01 GMT
the exo looks good at first, but is actually nearly ignorable. BS3 shooting, no ignores cover or twin linking mean it'll do about one wound to a unit in 4+ cover per turn. it'll be dealt with, when the GK has worked down his list of targets. the most it will do is make him stay in cover for a turn. if it assaults it will likely be murderized.
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Post by lazarusparadox on Aug 4, 2015 2:40:00 GMT
The exocrine is definitely more useful against grey knights than the harusfpetx is, but the problem comes with its size. It's an mc with an AP2 shooting attack. He WILL focus down the exocrine first, shunting nearby and assaulting as soon as he can with his dreadknights. Interesting, if you can deny his psychic phase, a regenerating haruspex can be used to tie down almost all of his heavy hitters (besides dreadknights and draigo crew) but ONLY IF you get the charge, and deny his psychic buffs to the squad. Acid blood, his stacking attacks buff, and regenerating wounds on unbuffed terminators/paladins does wonders. If he doesn't kill them, they will be stuck in combat until he can commit some more support to it. Good advice once again, thanks! It's interesting, I had heard that Haruspex were pretty underwhelming back in 6th edition when our newer codex first came out so I had always written them off especially compared to the new Toxicrine. It's still a shame to me how many MCs have WS 3. Tervigons, Mawlocks, Haruspex, Carnifexes all come to mind, there are probably more I just can't think of them. It's even more confusing to me that most of the aforementioned units are dedicated melee units. Maybe I'm just using them wrong but I always seem to find them wanting in melee. Yeah that makes a lot of sense. But outside fighting Grey Knights, do you find the Exocrine to be a good unit? I was thinking about running it with the Bio Artillery formation, the one that lets you re-roll scatters. |
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Post by gigasnail on Aug 4, 2015 2:43:42 GMT
hausperex is still pretty underwhelming. it will murder TAC squads caught in the open. that's...about it.
and no, the exocrine is maddeningly average to bad. i ran it a lot when the codex dropped because, you know. S7 AP2. it's just kind of meh. sometimes the threat of it will keep people in cover for a turn while they kill it, but the points are better spent on things that actually kill and do work for you (mawlocks, flyrants, dakkafexes).
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Post by lazarusparadox on Aug 4, 2015 3:21:38 GMT
hausperex is still pretty underwhelming. it will murder TAC squads caught in the open. that's...about it. and no, the exocrine is maddeningly average to bad. i ran it a lot when the codex dropped because, you know. S7 AP2. it's just kind of meh. sometimes the threat of it will keep people in cover for a turn while they kill it, but the points are better spent on things that actually kill and do work for you (mawlocks, flyrants, dakkafexes). Ah that sucks! Sorry to hear it, it's such a cool model too! Well hopefully it gets some buffs in the next codex. I heard the Tau are up next for a codex update. If thats true I think we came next last time around in 6th Edition (Eldar, Tau, Nids) so we can hope I guess. How have you found Mawlocks in combat? From my limited experience with them, if you don't scatter Terror from the Deep is pretty decent but I feel like they're just above average tarpits in melee. Again, this could be user error on my part though. Any other units in the codex that can reliably deal with MEQs? I've run toxin sac Hormagaunts with relative success if I can give the enemy enough other targets to shoot at as I run them from cover to cover. Any thoughts on the Toxicrine? |
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Post by gigasnail on Aug 4, 2015 4:03:26 GMT
they are just average tarpits, but they have hit and run, and burrow. don't run them in singles, run them in pairs (3 may be too much of an investment, depends on rest of list and points).
pretty much everything deals with MEQ. they're not that resilient, and they're relatively expensive. kill or weaken with volume of fire (dakkafexes, dakka flyrants, mawlocks, podded devilgants though i'm not a fan of those in general right now, personal taste etc etc) then mop up with dakkafex charge or tarpit w/ whatever is convenient. remember it's best to kill in CC during the other player's turn so you aren't left exposed.
ref: toxicrene man he's so close to good, it's maddening. boatload of attacks, but at WS3. nasty poisoned shooting pieplate, that can one shot himself if it scatters with its limited range and WS3. CC monster, with a 4+ save (hello, krak grenades). I7, no assault grenades (so gets krak grenaded to death). S5, so hard to damage vehicles. no fleet or 12" beast move = foot slogger. even with pods, you're not getting the charge off till turn 3+. it has two things going for it: relatively cheap, and native shrouding. awesome model though.
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Post by lazarusparadox on Aug 4, 2015 5:07:51 GMT
Ah ok awesome, and again as always, thanks for the feedback. There was one trick I was curious about with the Exocrine; So if it doesn't move during the movement phase the get +1 to ballistic skill (BS 4) then if you use onslaught on them can they then run and shoot in the shooting phase still at BS 4? It's a massive technicality taking the wording "move during the movement phase" hyper literally. I've seen people do it at my local game store but I don't know if we had just misunderstand some rules. Thoughts?
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Post by gigasnail on Aug 4, 2015 5:13:28 GMT
no, that's not exploiting a technicality. that's exactly how the rules work.
and yeah man, np. welcome to the hive!
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