Skytyrant Swarm

[abraxxas]

Has anyone had much experience fielding this? I am thinking of running this just because it looks like a lot of fun and a great way to potentially tie up several units on the charge.

[nurglitch]

It can be a lot of fun, but it's also squishy, exposes your Tyrant somewhat, and hits like a fish. Good way to get a Tyrant into combat, and if I'm understanding the Challenge rules, across the table quickly where you can challenge a new character each round.

[Kark]

Main problem with skytyrant swarm is that majority toughness is 3 only. This means that unit will die very quickly. I think it is better to run separate CC tyrant and separate gargoyles for screening.

I played skytyrant in tournament once and I was really displeased with its performance. I run tyrant armed with reaper of obliterax, escorted by 40 gargoyles and kept in shrouded bubble. First game was against very competitive AM+Inquisition list. I was first and only tyrant with 2 gargoyles managed to charge conscripts buffed by divination powers. Tyrant died after 2 rounds of combat. Completely useless formation for that battle (no real targets for skytyrant). Second battle was against dark angels. Again I was first. Flyrants did very well, skytyrant was shot by all plasma talons (3 full ravenwing command squads) but managed to charge some bikes. He couldn't get through 4++, followed by fnp. He died in combat. RCS also charged at my gliding flyrant and I killed 2 in overwatch and 3 in CC, so my dakka flyrant fought better in CC than skytyrant. Third battle was against wolfstar. I was first and flyrants managed to kill one wolflord in shooting. After that two remaining wolflords (T5, 3++, 2+, 4 wounds), wolf priest, bike command squad (additional fnp) were invisible, so I try to avoid getting in CC with them. Skytyrant did nothing in this battle either (again there were no targets for him). Third flyrant would have been far better choice.

[tarrasque]

The main issue I have with skytyrant is that it makes NO SENSE to attach a flyrant to gargoyles. Melee flyrants should be going after targets they can steamroll as they lack the tools to be a true combat monster. Gargoyles should be going after the things you can't handle. Assault terminators for instance.
Combining them into one unit makes it just one big confused blob that has no idea what it's supposed to do (kind of like a haruspex)

[gigasnail]

2+ LoS, 20-60 ablative wounds and able to span the table? It's pretty clear what it's supposed to do.

Problem is knights and other superheavies + volume of fire on the table today kind of render it moot.

[WestRider]

It's also way too easy for the Opponent to either destroy with Blasts if you clump up, or Charge at a point really far away from the Tyrant and tie up for ages if you spread out.

It may be workable, but it's far from the no-brainer I thought at first glance.

[dcoy]

Don't forget this formation can jink and is very easy to spread out and keep in range of Venomthropes for that 2+ cover as they rush across the board. I've run it twice for fun now, and from what I've seen so far it forces most of my opponents to react to it in disadvantageous ways when you consider the other units I have in play.

[gigasnail]

the flyrant can jink. the formation can't.

[gauntlet]

May 26, 2015 18:38:08 GMT Kark said:

Main problem with skytyrant swarm is that majority toughness is 3 only. This means that unit will die very quickly. I think it is better to run separate CC tyrant and separate gargoyles for screening.

Just recently this lesson happened.


My opponent had Kharn embedded in a unit of 5 or so, Chaos Marines. I stalled him by providing a lite lunch of hormagaunts.
Next turn I assaulted him with Venomthrope, Tyranid Prime, Genestealers, Trygon Prime.

Kharn could not challenge my Trygon Prime, which is not a character, so instead he swallowed my Tyranid Prime whole.
The Genestealers were mushed but the Trygon Prime (AP2) overkilled the Chaos Marines by 3 wounds.
The spill over of wounds went onto Kharn and he was lucky to keep a single wound due to 5++.

Beware putting your Tyrant into a unit as squishy as Gargoyles.

Perhaps there is a use for Ymgarls Factor on the Tyrant. The 2+ save from Ymgarl may not be useful during the challenge but you will be glad of it when the wounds from Gargoyles spill over.

[nurglitch]

Because they're in the same unit casting Catalyst on the Skytyrant Swarm is pretty necessary. Also, they need Adrenal Glands, so that they can just and charge with re-rolls.

[Kark]

May 27, 2015 14:00:17 GMT nurglitch said:

Because they're in the same unit casting Catalyst on the Skytyrant Swarm is pretty necessary. Also, they need Adrenal Glands, so that they can just and charge with re-rolls.

Giving them adrenal glands will further increase the price (and the formation itself costs some points). Catalyst on T3 unit, with high target priority, is not very useful as S6 and higher weapons will deny fnp.

[nurglitch]

Of course they will, but there's only so many S6 weapons to go around. The formation itself costs as many points as a Winged Hive Tyrant and two units of Gargoyles, which many people would be taking anyways.

The successful strategy, I think, would be to include as many infiltrators as possible to go with this formation. Include Lictors, Genestealers, Spore Fields, etc, and some Carnifexes to make S6 seem scarce, and I think you're onto something.

[mattblowers]

I'm with WestRider on this one. While it looks good on paper, it just doesn't work. I got cute and took it to a tournament and had to suffer through the whole event with the dang thing, it's terrible. Rather than think about it as a way to cover the board (which it can) think of it as too big to get out of it's own way, sure it's jump infantry, with a footprint that big, it just doesn't work like you think it will. If you don't get him stuck in a challenge he's a T3 MC. You are better off with a flyrant and 3 units of gargs separately. If you are gonna run this thing, I guess it could be useful for camping on a backfield objective and denying Slay the Warlord. Wyverns make quick work of it though.

[nurglitch]

If it looks good on paper, but doesn't actually work when you apply your strategy, I think the problem is with what you think looks good on paper rather than the unit you're obviously mis-applying.

[mattblowers]

If you've got some special sauce, then by all means, share it. The problem with your challenging strategy is that you can't challenge unless they are within 2" of a character model locked in combat before pile in moves happen (I guess technically you could issue the challenge but they can't accept). This means that with such a large footprint your opponent can easily charge and rip a whole in your gargoyle count without your bid bad boy being able to do anything about it. If you are trying to max footprint like some are suggesting, this is actually quite easy to do unless your opponent derps.