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Post by doomreaper9 on Apr 21, 2015 8:17:47 GMT
Here's what I complained about the most about our army. Synapse and Shadow in the Warp.
Synapse creatures will be all fearless, though synapse to lesser creatures don't. Instead GW should make it where synapse creatures give different abilities depending on this chart that I made up. Each unit that is synapse rolls on this chart to see what abilities they give to the hoard.
1: synapse range is increased to 6"
2: ferocity- all friendly units within the synapse unit gain the rage special rule. In addition any unit may run and assault. For monstrous creatures they gain the rage and rampage special rules.
3: Mind Raker- all friendly units within synapse range gain preferred enemy and counter attack special rules.
4: Fearless- all friendly units within synapse range gain fearless and cause fear. In addition any enemy unit within synapse range is -1Ld and only units that are fearless are immune to its affects.
5: Power of the Hive Mind- synapse unit only. Synapse units with this ability gain one psychic mastery level. In addition any synapse unit that is already a psychic may reroll any psychic test.
6: Might of the Hive Mind- synapse unit only. Synapse infantry units and jump infantry gain from this ability +1 WS, +1S and T and gain Feel no Pain. Monstrous Creatures gain +2 T, +1 W and A. Also they gain eternal warrior.
For shadow in the Warp: it should be the same range as the synapse creature or unit. Enemy units within its range that are psychic are -3 Ld. In addition Tyranids denied the which on a 4+ if they are under Shadow in the warp. Plus any roll of a double cause perils of the warp. If the test is failed the psycker in addition to perils of the warp must take a toughness test. If this test is failed the psyker takes a additional wound with no saves of any kind.
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Post by kurtangle2 on Apr 21, 2015 8:32:55 GMT
- Shadow in the warp shares the same range of Synapse
- The former works like a Psychic Hood (so if you cast a Psychic Power on gribblies and there's a Synapse unit giving Synapse to it, it gains a +1 Dispel bonus, stackable with Mastery Levels if Psyker in addition) and makes casting Psychic Powers on a result of 5+ if inside its bubble
- The latter of course gives Fearless to all units within its range and might give other bonuses based of each type of Synapse or multiple Synapse bubbles
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Post by doomreaper9 on Apr 21, 2015 8:51:59 GMT
Yeah I see ur point there. I think if GW were to make changes like this it would definitely make our army stronger as whole than just a sum of its parts. It would definitely make take more units that we wouldn't normally take such as the trygon prime or Tervigon.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Apr 21, 2015 9:19:58 GMT
Bad
1.Release a bunch more unnecessary but auto include MC'S that robbed the job of something else instead of balancing and readdressing biomorphs and weapons.
2. Skim all but the core from the codex so the Tyranid players need at least 7 or so different sources for their units, which unless ARE included, are almost chaff.
3. Flip - flop all the dual kits like normal to maximize profits on those that don't magnetize.
Good
1. All Tyranids under Synapse gain fearless, ignore initiative penalties when charging, and never suffer from a disordered charge for multi charging.
2. More Haywire, like the bio-electrical venom cannon?! Testaclids as a hunter killer equivalent.
3. Primaris is turned into 6" Synapse AND 5++ for the Synapse Psyker.
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Post by stonehorse on Apr 21, 2015 10:31:38 GMT
Keep it as it is, with two changes.
Half the cost of everything, rounding down.
Introduce a unique Tyranid FOC, 4 HQ, 6 Elite, 12 Troops, 6 Fast Attack, 6 Heavy Support.
That way GW force the Tyranid community to buy shed loads of models.
I say this as a joke, but I think it could work.
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Post by yoritomo on Apr 21, 2015 22:36:57 GMT
We don't need more synapse range, just simplify the IB rules. No more guys eating themselves. Aggressive units like hormagaunts must move towards the nearest enemy, passive units like termagants must move towards the nearest cover. Synapse should grant something like feel no pain on top of fearless.
I'd like to see the tyranid weapons be dependent on the strength of the tyranid carrying it. VC's are S+2, barbed stranglers and devourers are S-1. Weapon strength caps prevent silly things like S8 devourers. In order to make the venom cannon more appealing I'd take away rolling on the penetrating hit table and replace it with a second glancing hit.
If feel no pain is granted by synapse then the catalyst power needs to be changed. I'd make it a blessing that prevents models from being killed in close combat until after the Int 1 step. This would give us a defacto assault grenades while still giving us the feel of tyranids being expendable. I'd also move this to the primus power as this is something that would be useful every game. Warp blast/warp lance is fine, but zoanthropes need a price drop so we can get larger units of zoanthropes.
Shadows should not be tied to synapse, it should encompass the whole board for the entire game. It either needs to lower the number of warp dice people get or raise the number needed to succeed from 4+ to 5+. I'd also remove the perils of the warp rule for people under shadow in the warp.
Finally we need something to help us get into close combat. Either a rule that lets us assault after running or a baseline boost to our movement. Tyranids need to be fast if we are expected to deal with any kind of tanks/transports.
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Post by LordPathos on Apr 21, 2015 23:44:41 GMT
I'd like to see the tyranid weapons be dependent on the strength of the tyranid carrying it. VC's are S+2, barbed stranglers and devourers are S-1. Weapon strength caps prevent silly things like S8 devourers. In order to make the venom cannon more appealing I'd take away rolling on the penetrating hit table and replace it with a second glancing hit. Sounds like you want 4th edition back. I would personally welcome that with open arms. I want my Psychic Choir again  |
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Post by doomreaper9 on Apr 22, 2015 0:15:01 GMT
Just got back to this forum. If GW did it the way like I did, then we wouldn't need new models or need any buffs that take away from being a hoard. Certain units like genestealers and raveners do need something to help with their assaulting like flesh hooks. What I was trying out is how could we make the army better as a whole then just making some units better. We would be able to field the models we like cause of how they look or how we wish our to run. We could go off of our own play styles then just with what just works. Fixing synapse and shadow in the warp are just some of those things that need to be fixed and would be move in the right direction if GW did it that way. Maybe not as good as I would like to have it but with the same concept as it. I rather be able to play my army the way I like it to play. Instead I'm forced to take certain units or spam ones to be somewhat of a challenge. I hate that cause my opponent or opponents will just make list that will be able to handle the spam and those certain units. I lke to keep my opponent guessing as to what I field or what it is I'm trying to accomplish.
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Post by yoritomo on Apr 22, 2015 3:55:27 GMT
So your solution to people spamming tyrants is to make flyrants T8, with 5 wounds and eternal warrior? Oh, and they get to re-roll failed psychic tests when they are ML 3. That's really going to make people walk away from the flyrant.
I'm guessing you didn't think this through very well.
Seriously, look at what you've put down. You've outlined 6 things that synapse does, but if you break it down warriors get 12 special rules or stat boosts. That's one special rule/stat boost for ever 3 points you spend on a warrior. No other unit has that many special rules. I take that back, the hive tyrant gets 13 special rules/stat boosts. How exactly do you expect people to keep track of all these special rules? How does your opponent keep track of all those special rules? Because nobody cheats when things are this confusing.
Think about it, is this really the best way to fix tyranids? Do they even need fixing? Could a few simple tweaks do what you want instead of a massive rule overhaul? These new rules may work for you, but what about everyone else? Does it reflect their playing style as well? These are things you have to think about when making up new rules.
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Post by Kark on Apr 22, 2015 4:30:25 GMT
I think that infinite synapse range (all units are within synapse range unless no synapse creature is on the tabletop) would make game much easier and we could play with all gaunts more effectively. They would not run away so often, could tarpit the enemy and could hold distant objectives without risk of eating each other or simply running away. D strength bio artefact, Trygon as S10 T8 GC (or gargantuan beast), hormagaunts being beasts with +3'' when run and charge, more psychic disciplines (tyranid version of biomancy, telepathy, telekinesis or access to BRB ones), hatred special rule is what I crave for, also faster MCs, like 12'' moving harupexes, toxicrenes (they can have 4+), tougher tervigons and tyrannofexes (T7, maybe 2+) and of course tyranid decurion detachment with cool special rules like eternal warrior to warriors  , reroll scatter dice for mawlocs and other... |
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Post by doomreaper9 on Apr 22, 2015 6:03:04 GMT
So your solution to people spamming tyrants is to make flyrants T8, with 5 wounds and eternal warrior? Oh, and they get to re-roll failed psychic tests when they are ML 3. That's really going to make people walk away from the flyrant. I'm guessing you didn't think this through very well. Seriously, look at what you've put down. You've outlined 6 things that synapse does, but if you break it down warriors get 12 special rules or stat boosts. That's one special rule/stat boost for ever 3 points you spend on a warrior. No other unit has that many special rules. I take that back, the hive tyrant gets 13 special rules/stat boosts. How exactly do you expect people to keep track of all these special rules? How does your opponent keep track of all those special rules? Because nobody cheats when things are this confusing. Think about it, is this really the best way to fix tyranids? Do they even need fixing? Could a few simple tweaks do what you want instead of a massive rule overhaul? These new rules may work for you, but what about everyone else? Does it reflect their playing style as well? These are things you have to think about when making up new rules. It's the concept that GW should do. Now if they did it that way they will not make the synapse abilities as strong as I made them out to be, that was just as an example. However I believe if it did went that way it would strengthen the army as a whole. We wouldn't have need to have buffs or wish certain units were stronger, tougher, or having a better movement. Spamming is ok but it also has its draw backs. Flyrants can only do so much. I would like to play my army with a mix of things to where the whole army strengthens each other then just spamming certain units to be effective and be a challenge to my opponent or opponents. |
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Apr 22, 2015 7:05:19 GMT
I'm still in the no Eternal Warrior boat. Stupid enough that Joe blow Mc Captain can be for toting a chunk of blessed adamantium or a cape etc. I think every factions general should have it to represent their role in the big picture, sub Tyranids and possibly Daemons. Tyranids instead have ridiculous regeneration (roll d6 for each wound) and daemons just go poof and reappear.
As for BRB powers hahahahahahhaha. A race that is bio-engineered can't use biomancy. That communicates telepathically can't use telepathy.. A race that has consumed countless planets in fire and acid and poison can't use pyromamcy. That.. sees the entire extinction of planets can't use divination. (I will give GW this one, cunning isn't exactly intelligent. Bugs are NOT smart!!) What about telekinetically floating creatures? No telepathy.
Units under Synapse gain FNP 6+, no disordered charges.
Shadows should be 5+ to manifest with a unique Tyranid perils table. Reading that a daemon spawned from my exploded Zoey just doesn't sit right when we have zero connection to the Daemonkin. Also Synapse range is always equal to Shadows.
Venom Cannons chaned to Assault 2 AP4/3 Haywire/Poisoned 4+
Stranglers gain Ignore Cover and any unit charging a squad wounded by a Strangler fights at normal initiative.
Death spitters going back to 24" would separate a little with giving a MC version with S7 assault 4. MC version gets Shred/Armourbane instead of TL. Up 5-10 points.
Flamespurt reworked so each additional Pyro adds 6" torrent and S+1 and a max brood goes to AP3. 3 would be a 12" S7 torrent flamer. Similar to the Carnifex Bioplasma from Apoc.
Bioplasma having a dual profile like the Exorcine. Assault 2. Harpy can purchase as well. "Screeee."
Bioelectric pulse Haywire/Fleshbane for every 6 to hit. Provides a 5++ in combat if NOT used for the first round of combat.
Testaclids on my MC. Everyone likes this idea.
Talons gain Reroll 1 failed roll to hit each assault phase when assaulting. Two pairs adds 2 attacks instead of 1.
Rending claws gain AP4. On MC they add Shred.
Dual Boneswords gain AP2. They count as "force," if the wielder is a Psyker or within 6" of one. Everyone who has access to swords can do any of the mixtures. Go up 5-10 points.
Rippers on the bases. +1 to the initiative roll for determining being run down for Toughness based models. Against AV add you may Reroll 1's on the Armour Penetration table in assault for the first round of combat.
Broodlord having a charge through terrain hypnotize would actually give a reason to use him again. No overwatch AND fight at normal Initiative.
Dactylis lobbing Mucolid as a new MC.
Cerebore/Something Newacyteovoreafex slugging troops along or behaving in whatever other conceived manner.
Fortification slot for Sporocyst.
I'm sure there's a gem or two in there. Wow that was a lot longer than planned..
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Post by gauntlet on Apr 22, 2015 8:47:14 GMT
Make swarm work.
The problem with swarm is that they cannot harm vehicles and flyers, so must be able to survive by ignoring them.
At them moment swarm cannot survive because the Synapse creatures can be sniped.
The solution is to allow Warriors to be purchased as upgrades for gaunt units. (But also still allowing Warriors as a distinct troop unit. )
All the suggestion of optimization of Shadows, Synapse, Psychic powers, movement, biomorphs, Tyrants etc. are very cosmetic compared to suggestions about allowing command units to be embedded. The power of the other armies comes from protecting a specialist within resilient blobs.
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Post by arapaima on Apr 22, 2015 10:14:51 GMT
I really like the bloodthithe system in daemonkin khorne. I hope that something like it will be introduced as part of our codex. As we consume more biomass and do stuff, we can bring in reinforcements or evolve our gribblies into something by consuming biomass and spreading g the shadow of the warp.
Pimp basic movement. I think nid can be a bit faster.
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Post by montytrygon on Apr 22, 2015 11:09:08 GMT
So my thoughts. Sry for bad english, its my 3. language. Increase the movement of all MC to 9" Fast special rule: a unit with the fast special rule adds 3" to his movement and running. If it charges, it charges 6+D6. Fast Tyranids are: Hormagaunts, Genestealers, Trygon, Morgon, Raveners, Lictors, Dimacherion. If a infantry, beast or jump infantry unit gets adrenal glands, it gains the fast special rule +furious charge+fleet.# If a MC gets the adrenal glands, it gains furious charge+fleet and adds +1 Str to its Hammer of wrath attack. Standart: Remove Hormagaunt Brood. Remove Termagaunt Brood. Remove Tyranid Warrior Brood. Add Tyranid Horde. The Tyranid Horde is a huge brood made of this 3 types of units. It counts as a single unit. It can have up to 50 bodies. The Warriors count as 3 bodies. 0-1 Termagaunt brood 10-50 0-1 Hormagaunt brood 10-50 0-1 Tyranid warrior brood 1-9 If the Tyranid Horde doesnt contain any Gaunts, the minimum size of warriors is 3. You can buy weapons and biomorphs like in the actual codex, seperatly for each group. Rippers: New special rule: Infested Vehicel. If a brood of rippers charge a open topped or already damaged vehicle (like toxicrenes template) all bases in base contact with the vehicle may decide to enter the vehicle. The infested vehicle counts as CREW SHAKEN, as long as it is infested. If it is a transporter, at the beginning of the movement phase,the transported unit suffer D6 hits with str. 3 for evry ripper base in the vehicle (poisoned, if the rippers got toxin sacks). In every close combat phase, a single modell of the transported unit is allowed to fight the rippers. These attacks hit automaticly. The rippers may not leave the vehicle until it is wracked. If the vehicle explodes, the rippers are removed from the game. Maybe skyslasher swarms can do the same with flyers?  Just my 2 cents. I hope you enjoyed. |
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, reroll scatter dice for mawlocs and other...
