Necrons the new nasty

[mattblowers]

They are just plain nasty. Destroyers have 2 wounds each now (they are also preferred enemy everything). Wraiths T5 and beasts. Any tourney level list is gonna take the formation that gives the list a 4+ FNP army wide that can't be taken away (instant death is 5+ FNP). They are just plain tough as nails. They basically got a ward save in 40K, it's really tough to deal with. Since it technically isn't a save, they even get it against D weapons. Our lack of even an invul is becoming more prevalent.

Hive thoughts on our ways to deal with it would be much appreciated since these lists are going to explode. Anything that gets rerolls in 40K is golden.

[WestRider]

D Weapons and "Remove from Play" effects do deny Reanimation Protocols. It's earlier in the description on Pg.112 than you might expect, but it is covered.

But yeah, they're ludicrously durable. I saw a BatRep on another site where 10 Warriors plus a Cryptek took shooting from 3 DeathWing Squads (with Twin-Linking) and a pair of Wyverns and still had dudes left.

[shadowfinder]

They are hard as nails to kill with shooting. Blobs of warriors are going to be hard to shift with out normal shooting. Biovores are a good counter though. Close combat they fold pretty easily from my experience still.

I unloaded 36 shots from tyrants in to a unit of ten in a ruin and they lost 2 guys. They went to ground for a 3+ cover. I had to land a tyrant to go kill the unit in combat. even that lasted a full turn. The are crazy durable. Gon are the days of shooting of a 5 or ten man unit off a objective with crons.

Having a solid combat unit or two is going to be need when facing them. Sad thing to say the got better at combat units them selves. It's going to be a hard fight.

[CptDutchie]

Instant Death will lower the Reanimation Protocols by 1, Destroyer and Remove from play effects will totally ignore it.

If there is a Canoptek Harvest on the field, you might want to kill the Tomb Spider. Wraiths are already really though, and the spider can grand them Reanimation Protocols. It can also give Shred or Fleet, but I suspect that Reanimation Protocols will be used the most.

[Freeman]

Mar 2, 2015 19:07:09 GMT CptDutchie said:

Instant Death will lower the Reanimation Protocols by 1, Destroyer and Remove from play effects will totally ignore it.

If there is a Canoptek Harvest on the field, you might want to kill the Tomb Spider. Wraiths are already really though, and the spider can grand them Reanimation Protocols. It can also give Shred or Fleet, but I suspect that Reanimation Protocols will be used the most.

This

I reckon Necrons are a solid book but aren't horrid filth.

[tag8833]

New Crons are a big hit to Devourers. Large blob of warriors can basically shrug them off. Things like Destroyers take an absurd amount to kill.

They are also super hard to take out in assault.
I assaulted 2 tomb blades with 20 termagants. Combat took 8! rounds before I killed them.
I assaulted 3 warriors with a TFex. 5 Rounds of combat.
2 Wraiths multi-assaulted a Carnfex, and a tyrannocyte. After 5 rounds of combat the Tyrannocyte came out with 1 wound left.

Our best bet is to look for guns with AP. Biovores can still take out swaths of warriors. Exocrines are scary to most things. That make LAN a better formation than it used to be. Barbed Heirodules can take out Destroyers, and really everything except for Wraiths (which it can kill, but they can also put it down if they make a charge).

So my thoughts are.
#1 Barbed Heirodule. All they get is a 5+ res, and it can assault most stuff reliably thanks to stomps.
#2 Living Artillery. A good answer to phalanx style lists, which would be what I would run if i was a necron player, but a bad answer to wraith spam.
#3 Flying Circus. Not a good answer, but Necrons don't have a good answer to you. Lots of rolling dice not much picking up models.

As much as the newcrons are scary, with the exception of Wraiths, we can be pretty scary back thanks to Cover saves.

[harrytown]

I echo what Tag8833 said about the new necrons. They are tough but they are not invincible. The living artillery formation works really well against warriors and most units in their books as it forces them to only use their RP save. The barbed heirodule works well to but mass Gauss will kill him pretty quickly. I think that the 3 examples tag provided are pretty bad rolling but can provide examples of how great necrons can tarpit. I think most of the necron hype comes from first reactions the LVO results show that they will not win every tournament. Even the Decursion Detachment, which makes warriors crazy good, did not manage to place in the top eight. I think in the grand scheme of things they will not mess with nids too much.

[beefythepug]

Just to throw an idea out there, reading about the guy who recently won LVO didn't he have mawlocs? If you want a solid way to kill a bunch of warriors I'd think the TFTD attack might do some decent damage? especially if you're running Lictors. But yeah Necrons durability is pretty crazy now.

[gigasnail]

Yeah mawlocks will do a number on infantry of pretty much any description. That RP pretty much guarantees you're getting both blasts in and going back into the drink too.

Dont roll 1's!

[luke1705]

Yeah we do have access to AP 4 and AP 3. Those are the things that help against the Necrons. Also, while not all of our assault units work, things that can rend and are multiwound (lictors, Raveners, I'm looking at you) are actually capable of standing toe-to-toe with anything that isn't a wraith. And our dedicated assault units (Dimachaeron, yes even the Trygon) can do some work with the AP 2 in close combat. Just avoid the Nightbringer

[gigasnail]

because something can stand toe to toe with massed infantry doesn't mean it's going to pull its weight outside that. trygon is still butt.

[mattblowers]

The nightbringer is (please do not swear), you can kill it easily, it's not even good in fluffy games: Dakkafexes and flyrants make easy work of them. Immortals are the worst. 3+ with 4++ FNP are crazy good. Plus they tear down anything but gribblies with ease. No one is saying they are the end all, but they are a tough match up now. I've had the same problems as tag8833. I used to be able to kill enough in CC and force a runaway so they didn't get RP, now the just don't go away and they actually hit back.

[tag8833]

Mar 2, 2015 23:16:43 GMT harrytown said:

I echo what Tag8833 said about the new necrons. They are tough but they are not invincible. The living artillery formation works really well against warriors and most units in their books as it forces them to only use their RP save. The barbed heirodule works well to but mass Gauss will kill him pretty quickly. I think that the 3 examples tag provided are pretty bad rolling but can provide examples of how great necrons can tarpit. I think most of the necron hype comes from first reactions the LVO results show that they will not win every tournament. Even the Decursion Detachment, which makes warriors crazy good, did not manage to place in the top eight. I think in the grand scheme of things they will not mess with nids too much.

Gauss isn't very threatening to a Barbie.  It takes about 250 shots at BS:4 for Gauss Blasters to Kill a Barbie.  Remember 3+ Armor, 5+ FNP.

My rolling wasn't far off.  
Statistically, 20 Gants should take 7.2 rounds of combat to kill 2 Tomb Blades.  I took 8.
4.8 rounds of combat for a TFex to kill 3 warriors.  I took 5.
A Wraith will do 0.56 unsaved wounds per round to a Carnifex, and will take 0.42 unsaved wounds back.
A Wraith will do 0.83 unsaved wounds per round to a Tyrannocyte, and will take 0.25 unsaved wounds back (Smashing can net you 0.28 unsaved wounds per turn against full health Wraiths). 

LVO was far too soon to be a viable test of NewCrons.  I think that given time Newcrons will acquit themselves quite well at tournaments.  I know at LVO, the one game that I got lucky was against Newcrons in the 1st round.  They would have beat me on 5, I needed it to go on to six, and to get kinda lucky to pull it out (which I did).

Mar 3, 2015 0:20:26 GMT gigasnail said:

Yeah mawlocks will do a number on infantry of pretty much any description. That RP pretty much guarantees you're getting both blasts in and going back into the drink too.

Dont roll 1's!

I've run Mawlocks 3 times against newcrons so far.  I've yet to make my points back.  4+ super-FNP negates 1/2 of the damage, and basically garantees a mishap, so 1 in 6 times you only get 1 drop, and generally kill 2-3 warriors.  In this case, my rolling has been atypical.  I've run 4 Mawlocs (in 3 games) and gotten a total of 8 drops, and 3 of the 4 Mawlocs have mishapped and died.  1 Arrived, and was shot, then assaulted and killed, by some Necron IC.

A savvy Necron player will deny you good targets, especially if you have multi-level terrain in your meta. Your best bet is to try to get the Necrons in close combat, and then bring you Mawloc in on your own combat. I don't like it as a terribly viable tactic, and definitely less optimal than other approaches, IMO.

[gigasnail]

well, sometimes the dice gods bone you. it's the nature of a d6 system that they're going to stand out a lot.

[eskimo]

I always target down the Wraiths first with mass shooting. Warriors and Immortals are terrible in CC, one nice win sends them running in assault. Plus their psychic defence is a D6. Gargoyles blind is gold too, even on Wraiths.