Manufactorum Genestealer rules question

[shrike]

So the rule says you can deploy within 6" of the enemy if you deploy in ruins or buildings. Does this mean I must not be within line of sight by any enemy model still? Or is it enough to simply be behind ruins or building terrain to qualify as being able to infiltrate 6" away?

[Davor]

I haven't played in years. I bought the supplement when I was thinking of going to play again. So what I am going to say could be wrong. I would say Line of Site doesn't matter because there is no mention of it (going of memory so again could be wrong.)

So all you have to be is within 6" as lone as you are in a building or ruin. Only counter to this if your opponent is worried about it, is not to deploy in buildings or ruins and then you can't place your Stealers within 6" then.

[luke1705]

I believe that this is the interpretation that most players use; however I haven't played with/against it. If nothing else, you can use Codex > BRB and you should be fine

[Deleted]

I've wondered this before too. RAW I want to say it's just 6 and Line of sight is irrelevant.

Hard to say though.

[cypheon]

the manufactorum and the lictor fun from that book do not care about LoS, only specific terrain pieces and no closer than 6" away. don't have it sitting in front of my face but pretty sure it otherwise still counts as infiltrating (no charging on turn 1), which could spell doom for your stealers anyway.

[WestRider]

Mar 2, 2015 1:56:46 GMT cypheon said:

the manufactorum and the lictor fun from that book do not care about LoS, only specific terrain pieces and no closer than 6" away. don't have it sitting in front of my face but pretty sure it otherwise still counts as infiltrating (no charging on turn 1), which could spell doom for your stealers anyway.

The distance is actually the sketchy part of that one. It says you have to Deploy "within 6"" and in Ruins/Buildings, which, if actually correct, means that you can't Infiltrate in the 6-12" range band, or in the 12-18" if an Enemy Unit has LoS, but can Infiltrate an inch away as long as the Stealers are in Ruins.

[cypheon]

dug up the book and for manufactorum stealers... "Unsuspected: Models from this Formation that are deployed within a Building or Ruins using the Infiltrate special rule can be set up within 6" of an enemy model"

and i can see where the issue is. you can deploy within the standard infiltrate rules, or within 6 inches if you can fit the whole unit into a ruin/building (and the whole unit has to be within 6 inches.)

so to answer shrikes question: no, you can not deploy 8 inches away even if you're in a ruin and out of LOS. the formations unites deploy using the options of:
a) building/ruin and within 6" regardless of LOS;
b) standard infiltrate rules and ranges.

that deployment dead zone is very weird though...

[Deleted]

Mar 2, 2015 2:38:19 GMT cypheon said:

dug up the book and for manufactorum stealers... "Unsuspected: Models from this Formation that are deployed within a Building or Ruins using the Infiltrate special rule can be set up within 6" of an enemy model"

and i can see where the issue is. you can deploy within the standard infiltrate rules, or within 6 inches if you can fit the whole unit into a ruin/building (and the whole unit has to be within 6 inches.)

so to answer shrikes question: no, you can not deploy 8 inches away even if you're in a ruin and out of LOS. the formations unites deploy using the options of:
a) building/ruin and within 6" regardless of LOS;
b) standard infiltrate rules and ranges.

that deployment dead zone is very weird though...

The problem is the text RAW Isn't what you typed as an analysis.

It's not "you can deploy within the standard infiltrate rules, or within 6 inches" It's you can infiltrate  within 6" of enemies. LoS requirements are part of infiltrate. So you'd need to be on the other side of a wall in ruins, which isn't completely unrealistic considering what most people's ruins consist of. 

[WestRider]

And you still can't Infiltrate in the 6"-12" zone. I suspect that the intention was precisely the opposite, to allow them to Infiltrate into that 6-12" zone, but given GW's approach to FAQs over the past year since the dataslate dropped, I kind of doubt we'll ever know for sure.

[Jabberwocky]

The really odd thing is comparing this formation and the broodlord hunting pack.

At first I thought they'd typo'd the wording and they intended the 6-12" infiltrate but when you look how specific the other deployments are it's clear that either it was intentional as is, or the rules were written by different people who didn't collaborate before sending to print.

[gigasnail]

this is my not surprised face.

[cypheon]

Mar 2, 2015 4:47:02 GMT @nidsinrva said:

Mar 2, 2015 2:38:19 GMT cypheon said:

dug up the book and for manufactorum stealers... "Unsuspected: Models from this Formation that are deployed within a Building or Ruins using the Infiltrate special rule can be set up within 6" of an enemy model"

and i can see where the issue is. you can deploy within the standard infiltrate rules, or within 6 inches if you can fit the whole unit into a ruin/building (and the whole unit has to be within 6 inches.)

so to answer shrikes question: no, you can not deploy 8 inches away even if you're in a ruin and out of LOS. the formations unites deploy using the options of:
a) building/ruin and within 6" regardless of LOS;
b) standard infiltrate rules and ranges.

that deployment dead zone is very weird though...

The problem is the text RAW Isn't what you typed as an analysis.

It's not "you can deploy within the standard infiltrate rules, or within 6 inches" It's you can infiltrate  within 6" of enemies. LoS requirements are part of infiltrate. So you'd need to be on the other side of a wall in ruins, which isn't completely unrealistic considering what most people's ruins consist of. 

the LOS restrictions on infiltrate are very specific to the 12" range.  you can infiltrate at 18" and stand in the open with your willie in your hand if you really want to.  since this special rule takes you closer than the 12" out of LOS range listed in Infiltrate, and it does not specify an LOS restriction... it doesn't care if you can be seen or not, so long as you're in the correct terrain type.

[shrike]

I didn't even catch that part about being within 6". Shouldn't RAI mean that your stealers be at least 6" away if in that specific terrain?

[cypheon]

shrike, one would think so, but it's written very specifically to say "within"... even though everything else is "no closer than" in the same dataslate... it's a scare deployment... put it there to freak someone out while you put the rest of your army in places that aren't silly.

[Davor]

Within, to me is 6" or less. Forgot about the can't be within 1" so I guess "within" would mean 1" to 6" away.