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Post by asmodas on Dec 29, 2014 16:45:28 GMT
So, rumor has it we may be seeing a Harlequin codex (either as allies for Codex: Eldar or as their own mini-codex, a la Militarum Tempestus) in the near future. Here are my thoughts, which I originally posted on BOLS but thought might be of interest to some folks here, as well, as I know there are a few people who run both Nids and Eldar, and love Harlequins (which currently suck):
If they were actually going to do this, here is what I think they should (and might) do:
1. Make Harlequin Jetbikes and make it a dual kit with Warlocks on Jetbikes. Jetseers are one of the only units remaining that does not have an official model, so this just makes sense from a business perspective, and doing a dual kit with Harlequins is a surefire winner. Make the Harlequin unit interesting enough that you can tempt people into buying multiple kits (I think making them a close combat jetbike unit would be the way to go, as it fits the Harlequin close combat, hit and run ideal. Maybe give them hit and run, rending, I6 (like usual for Harlies) and assault grenades?).
2. Clampack Solitaire. Make him an HQ choice and an absolute combat machine. He should have Mantle-like powers (including the restriction preventing him from joining other units, which is in line with his fluff). I am thinking something along the lines of the stats of the new Assassins (is it the Eversor? I can't remember which one is close combat oriented).
3. Make Death Jesters a Heavy Support choice, and 1-3 per unit. Death Jesters suffer from being stuck in a unit that always wants to run and lacks Battle Focus, so no running and shooting. Separating them out would make them a lot more interesting (sort of like cheaper, shorter range Dark Reapers).
4. Give the Harlequins an open topped assault vehicle along the lines of the DE boats. Harlequins are too slow in their current incarnation to really compete with other choices in the Craftworld Eldar codex. For the same amount of points as a decently-kitted out Harlie squad, you could have a Wave Serpent with an attached squad. Giving the Harlequins an assault vehicle would help them earn back that high investment. Maybe leave the vehicle relatively vulnerable, and with a limited armament, but give it built in holo fields (since Harlequins are where Holo Fields came from, after all - they were the first unit to carry them, originally as a form of personal protection in the 2nd edition codex) on a fast skimmer frame.
Another obvious, but boring, choice would be just to re-do the Harlies in plastic. The current finecast kit was a nightmare for me - lots of bubbling and warping, and the buggers are attached to the base by their toes and/or capes, and I just had to repair two of them because they break so easily (even without putting them on the field!).
Just wishlisting here, but I think a few of these ideas would make for a fun ally or themed army, and might even make Harlequins decent. |
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Post by Anggul on Dec 30, 2014 3:10:22 GMT
Harlequins need big changes to be good again. They're my favourite faction in 40k and it's a real shame that GW have stubbornly refused to admit that they were only ever good in 4th edition and every edition since has made them worse and worse. They're simply far too easy to kill when they're supposed to be a total pain to even hit.
Give Shadowseers another wound, mastery level, ghosthelms and witchblades, and give them conceal and doom to represent the powers they have in the fluff. Conceal should replace veil of tears and Shadowseers have always been said to be masters of seeing the doom of a person. Alternatively just give them access to runes of fate and telepathy. It would make them a good counterpart to Spiritseers. Make them more expensive for this of course.
As for Harlequins in general, they should have 3++ (if a Wych can dodge on 4+, a Harlequin in a holo-suit is going to be even more likely), rending should be part of their 'Dance of Death' rule and harlequin's kisses should be more expensive, limited per squad and cause instant death instead of rending, but against MCs two wounds instead. Also give them Preferred Enemy: Daemons for obvious reasons.
Decent and fluffy I feel.
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Post by asmodas on Dec 30, 2014 15:56:20 GMT
Yeah, the Harlequin kisses are way too expensive for what is really a must-take upgrade. Without them, they are Banshee-level in combat, and with them they are 22 ppm! They make genestealers look cheap.
I like the idea for the Shadowseer and the changes to standard Harlies, but I think GW may hesitate to completely change the profiles of existing units that are in the CWE Codex, as then you will have two "official" codexes with different rules for the same models (or I could be completely wrong, and GW may be planning to print a new Eldar Codex in the next few months, so they go ahead and change it anyway. And by the way, if they do change profiles like that, I think that would be a big tell as to the possibility of a new CWE Codex). I think it is more likely that they either add units or change unit compositions (and likely some formations to help justify the point expense of fielding expensive Harlequins). The idea of giving them access to Conceal and Doom seems good, though, as it definitely fits the theme and sounds much more reliable than the current Veil of Tears ability. Giving them access to Wargear would be a big plus too.
I have a full ten man unit of Harlequins with all the upgrade characters, so I'd love to be able to field them without feeling like I am giving my opponent a free point advantage.
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Post by Anggul on Dec 30, 2014 21:05:16 GMT
Well the way I see it they should stay expensive and elite but actually be able to survive and deal damage for those points. They're supposed to be really hard to hit and kill but they're as easy to kill as Daemonettes and usually cause less damage too.
I don't think making Shadowseers and HQ choice is that far out an idea, they've been doing it with a lot of support characters like Spiritseers, Painboyz and Sanguinary Priests. You're right that it's less likely because they already have rules in the Eldar codex, but those rules are terrible and hopefully GW will just admit that and say the new rules override them.
Unfortunately, I expect they'll just remain the same but be able to ally around like the Inquisition. Like the Inquisition they should indeed be separate and be able to ally without needing to take craftworld units, they roam the galaxy themselves after all. Also like the Inquisition however, it's probably just going to be a straight port of their rules with a couple of relics thrown in.
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Post by auretioustaak on Jan 4, 2015 2:05:34 GMT
3rd edition Harlequin codex by Gave Thorpe was pretty sweet, all approved for general play via the Citadel Journal if memory servves. I've a pdf print out around here somewhere, it's a pretty swish mini-codex.
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Post by angelwing on Jan 4, 2015 21:15:24 GMT
with gw plundering 1st and 2nd ed for ideas, will harlequins get their landraider back?  |
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Post by asmodas on Jan 5, 2015 16:07:22 GMT
Haha, probably no land raiders, but Raiders, sure.
The rumor mill seems to be pointing towards jetbikes, plastic harlies, and a few clampack characters (likely the Grand Harlequin/Troupe Master, Shadowseer and Death Jester - no Solitaire rumors yet). I'd be okay with that if they gave them access to Dark Eldar assault vehicles - it would give me an excuse to add a couple boats to my CWE collection.
If they are going to keep digging into the past like this, I hope they eventually get around to Genestealer cults.
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Post by WestRider on Jan 5, 2015 16:54:08 GMT
I seem to recall something similar to the Venom being available for Harlies at some point. 3rd-4th Ed, maybe. Might actually have been the first appearance of the Venom's rules, years before it actually became a kit.
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Post by angelwing on Jan 5, 2015 18:11:49 GMT
I seem to recall something similar to the Venom being available for Harlies at some point. 3rd-4th Ed, maybe. Might actually have been the first appearance of the Venom's rules, years before it actually became a kit. Yes, the gav thorpe journal list I think. IIRC the model was a conversion, basically using a sawn off viper. |
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Post by mattblowers on Jan 6, 2015 4:15:06 GMT
I'm stoked about this. I still keep giving my harlequin army a whirl and it keeps dying. I hope they beef them up in some way. Harlequins are even worse than genestealers currently. At least rumors are they get venoms, and raiders. That alone excites me if the are BB with Eldar. Now I can run Harlequins with an aspect army and actually create a mobile assault force. I'm drooling at the thought. Just take my money now!
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Post by Anggul on Jan 6, 2015 17:33:58 GMT
I seem to recall something similar to the Venom being available for Harlies at some point. 3rd-4th Ed, maybe. Might actually have been the first appearance of the Venom's rules, years before it actually became a kit. It was the Venom, it was a Vyper with the turret left off and replaced the shuriken catapults with a fusion gun. |
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Post by arapaima on Jan 7, 2015 8:43:50 GMT
Love harlie fluff, it is a good thing they are getting their own supplement.
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Gardakka
Genestealer
Back! And ready to devour the Imperium of Man.
Posts: 69
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Post by Gardakka on Jan 8, 2015 11:49:43 GMT
While I can't say I'm a fan of Eldar I do like the Harlequins. And the way I look at it the more options inthe game the better. I'm never going ot be an Eldar player, but a detachment of Harlequins, yes, I might go with that.
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Post by blackrainbow on Jan 9, 2015 5:48:16 GMT
My 2cp, and I start this by saying I don't care for their fluff ever sense some of it crossed my favorite Masque of Slaanesh; multi-kits are IMO the new big push, as well as suplimental releases providing more than codexes as far as units and rules. Though I'm not up to date on their actual rules and point costs, my friend says they are (like so many things) way overdue for an update. GL.
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Post by asmodas on Jan 9, 2015 16:54:47 GMT
My 2cp, and I start this by saying I don't care for their fluff ever sense some of it crossed my favorite Masque of Slaanesh; multi-kits are IMO the new big push, as well as suplimental releases providing more than codexes as far as units and rules. Though I'm not up to date on their actual rules and point costs, my friend says they are (like so many things) way overdue for an update. GL. Yep, pretty much agree on all points (except for not liking their fluff, which I do). Multi-kits with jetbikes (which are one of the oldest kits in the entire 40K range - I have a 2d edition jetbike and 3 new ones, and they match perfectly) and plastic Harlies, along with some options to make a limited variety of special characters (either on the sprues, like the Neurothrope, or in a clampack) plus a new supplemental codex that can ally with both CWE and DE. It is a good business move for GW, as Eldar haven't had a big release since the Wraithknight, which was quite some time ago now. A lot of Eldar players are restless, so throwing them a bone with updated Harlies and a new supp codex is probably a good way to get Eldar players to buy something other than their 4th Wave Serpent. I have no real need for more Harlies, but I will for sure buy the new codex when it comes out, and will probably plunk down a few dollars on whatever else comes out unless it's spectacularly awful (and GW's track record, at least as far as model aesthetics, has been pretty good lately. Our new Nids are all great, although I don't love the new Zoans as much as some).
I'm curious about the Masque of Slaanesh bit. Care to elaborate?
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