Warriors/Shrikes

[Yautja]

OK I thought I'd start a discussion on these beautiful models. A couple of times in the Dima discussions, Shrikes have been mentioned. I've never used them, based on their armour save. I have used CC Warriors, but even then, only cheapskate talons/claws/hooks. Anyway, with the advent of pods, are any players that use Shrikes considering switching to Warriors? Benefits would be a better armour save and OS. Personally, I can't see the point of podding Shrikes, with their lovely speed they don't need it in my opinion. 

Any Shrike users considering podding Warriors/Shrikes?

[gigasnail]

Regular wars, not outside of LAN. Shrikes are a different beast. jaysic has sold me on them. Check his CC army thread you like to post in, lots of info there.

[N.I.B.]

I've used a unit of 8 madly expensive Shrikes in three games now, all tablings/big wins. They are great, in the right army. The right army, imo, is an army that hits turn 2 in a big wave. Shrikes hit like a ton of bricks. Took out two units of 4 TWC yesterday. They provide synapse, and a big unit is easier to Shroud by trailing a few dudes behind.

I use the template laid out by jaysic:

3) Shrikes. Oh god shrikes.
I've played around with these a lot. You're taking Flesh Hooks, Adrenal glands (FLEEEET), and Toxic sacs. Accept that. Don't try to skimp on points.
A delivery system (Shrouding, horms) are usually needed for these guys, at least if playing them very aggresively. 3+ cover save? Yes please. Someone else to eat rapid fire overwatch (or flamer overwatch)? Double yes please. The unit is just expensive and I feel scared if they don't have their support units. That being said.....I don't remember the last time they really got shot at. People are usually too busy shooting Melyrants, Malanthropes, or Carnifexen to pay any attention to these guys. I used to use them extremely aggressively, but since I've been using Melyrants I've toned down my number of squads (used to run 3, now I usually run just 1....sometimes 2) and used them as a midfield reactionary force. Can also plug emergency holes in Synapse, though that rarely happens as I typically run 2 Melyrants and 2 Malanthropes. There are two types of units I like to run;

A) 3x Lashwhip / Bonesword. LOL. These kill Wraithknights or deathstars. Last tournament they killed Ahriman(sp?) embedded in a unit of Chosen on the charge. That same day they killed a Seerstar on the charge with wounds left over. They also shine against Chaos Spawn, Nobs, or really anything with a 3+ save.
B) 5x Rending Claw / Scything Talons. Why take these? They can LOLStomp blobs, and these are our best anti-TEQ. They kill more terminators on the charge (non-storm shield terms) for 230 points than a Melyrant does for 250 (4.47 terms vs 2.89). I've also now done the math for the Dima vs. TEQ;
Kinda weird because of its random proc for +1 attack and +D3 attacks, but here's the numbers.
Worst case; 2.99 dead TEQ
Average; 3.91
Best case; 4.3
Very similar to the shrikes, who win out on highest number of kills. When comparing the Dima (average) to shrikes, the Dima is 1 ten thousandth more cost effective (wounds per point).

Pick your poison of 15 T4 wounds at 12" move with 5+ save VS the Dimas MC frame.

[Yautja]

Just to clarify, I was asking about whether Warriors using pods had come into anyone's mind. Using the new delivery system rather than wings. As for Shrikes, yeah no doubt they bring the hurt but I can't help but cringe at that price.

That loudout above costs...183 for minimum brood size. Ouch. Would they not be better off with the cheaper claws and have an extra Shrike for the same cost? I really need to try this though seeing as I already use a CC Flyrant....

[teppie]

I love them. Keep in mind that I use a very melee focused force with almost no shooting, but they always do great. Their threat range is awesome with 12" move and fleet for charge, but you really need to use them right. These guys get gunned down by just about anything so when you use them you need to make sure what targets you have for them.

You really should try them out but remember that they need a lot of support. Since they are so fast I've learned that you need to be patient with them. If you run them to far ahead, get a charge and MURDER whatever you hit there is a big chance you won't be able to consolidade back into cover and/or shrouded. If you can't then it's bye bye shrikes.

Make sure they aren't the only melee threat or they will be negated or killed. However, use them in conjunction with other melee threats and you will be a happy camper. Whenever I play with my friends it's my 3 shrikes with LW/BS that they fear the most since they know that unless they take them out or somehow outmanouver them they WILL murder something. Hell, last game I played I baited a Wraithknight to charge my carnifex only to jump in my shrikes with a sinister grin on my face as they killed the W.knight and proceeded to slice up a unit of jetbikes the turn after.

Going to use them again tomorrow against my friends Sentinels of Terra (worst chapter to face EVER! Oh, you have twinlinked on all your got darn rapid fire? Good thing I never get close or god forbid charge... oh wait thats all I do... ). Going to be interesting to see how he will choose target priority.

[mattblowers]

I use warriors in almost every game. They are a great source of synapse, are OS (as you pointed out), and are no slouch in combat. I run bare MSUs though I do take deathspitters over devs. That's a recent switch for me. I've not tried fooling around with pods and them yet, but I'll be getting around to it. (I'm playing a lot of Malifaux and Warmachine the last month, plus I just got my Dystopian Legions 2.0 rules.) Warriors could be much better, but they have won a lot of games for me with the new codex. Plus they are awesome models!

[luke1705]

Shrikes are definitely better with the advent of the Malanthrope/Venomthrope. Getting 3+ (2+ with night fighting) cover for their turn or two of vulnerability before CC is not hard (screen with gargoyles, enjoy shrouded). Personally, I like Raveners more, but that's no indictment on Shrikes. The only thing Raveners have going for them over Shrikes is the beast unit type (which, indeed, is nice), but they lose out on Synapse (and, therefore, SITW) and are only LD6. They also don't have access to the lash whip/bonesword combo. It's definitely a pricey upgrade, but AP 3 by default and access to instant death is no small benefit. Plus if you pay the 5 points to get the lash whip, you are striking at I 7. Not too shabby. I suppose that Raveners can also deal with 2+ armor better, but if you want to give rending claws to shrikes you can for the same price. I only say "better" because the LW/BS is only ap 3, and you'll definitely be taking one per squad or more.

I know that strength 8 exists that ignores cover as well, but it's not all that common. Ask yourself how sad wraiths are to take their 3+? No, an invulnerable isn't the same thing as a cover save, but the durability is the same when it's not ignores cover. Plus, shrikes have three wounds, not two

[Jabberwocky]

I ran melee warriors for a while but I wouldn't pod them.

They are more of a mop up crew for once the hormies bog stuff down, so I want them arriving the following turn. Podding makes them more of a solo unit.

I'd consider podding deathspitter warriors to annihilate rear armour but that's about it. Maybe cc warriors could try with their flesh hooks for an assault the following turn.

[WestRider]

I think they're definitely becoming more viable overall. The combo of S8+Ignores Cover is becoming significantly less common, and Malanthropes make it easier to keep them Shrouded than Venomthropes do. I still don't use them all that often myself, because my most common Opponent tends to run double IonTides or Skull Cannon or whatever, but at the last couple of Tournaments I played in, I saw very little that would have been really nasty for Warriors.

[jaysic]

As far as "competitively" I say no. My problem with deepstriking warriors is the same as deepstriking anything else melee; You can't count on when it will come in. Even then, you sit around for a turn before doing anything except for 6" moving towards your cover / shrouding + your run. I'd rather run the warriors up the field with AG then put them in a pod, if for some reason I didn't run them as shrikes which should be in combat easily by turn 2.
With the cheap amount of OS we already have access too (I've never been one to run troop light, though. Sure I run 2 DS ripper broods, but I also have at least 30 other gribblies there too) I don't see the need for OS warriors (when comparing to shrikes). In regards to their saves? Well I'm taking a better cover save than a 4+ regular most of the time anyway.

It's not just the delivery system that's the issue either, it's the mobility they have AFTER killing their primary target. I don't know about you guys, but most games I assign "missions" for each of my units, and sometimes they don't do as expected. Sometimes that Flyrant whiffs his rolls and is stuck in combat, then hit by a tarpit. Well, my Shrikes just murdered that pack of Nobs that was their primary mission, and are not freed up as auxillary forces. I have a pretty reliable 21" charge from where ever that unit is standing at the beginning of my turn, which makes up 65% of the board (assuming you're not within 21" of a board edge, playing on a 6x4 board). Add 12" to that and you have an idea of how good it's at plugging synapse as well. Warriors just don't have that sort of mobility, and a pod only (sort of) helps the delivery.

Edit; I would like to add that, just like my jetbikes, I almost always take at least 1 wound from dangerous terrain one these guys before they see combat. Make sure to shuffle it to the non-closest model on your next move / run phase if you're not assaulting that turn.

[sneggy]

I am currently in the process of magnetising my warriors to become shrikes. I would love for them to be effective now with the arrival of the pods but the pods are so damn expensive. I just cant justify spending 75pts to drop in a unit can could probably fly there quicker for 1pt less of armour. Not least when I mostly play vs Tau or Eldar and rarely get my 4+ save anyway. Better of clinging to cover and trying to take out the ignores cover stuff.

[gigasnail]

Nov 18, 2014 23:49:35 GMT jaysic said:

As far as "competitively" I say no. My problem with deepstriking warriors is the same as deepstriking anything else melee; You can't count on when it will come in. Even then, you sit around for a turn before doing anything except for 6" moving towards your cover / shrouding + your run. I'd rather run the warriors up the field with AG then put them in a pod, if for some reason I didn't run them as shrikes which should be in combat easily by turn 2.
With the cheap amount of OS we already have access too (I've never been one to run troop light, though. Sure I run 2 DS ripper broods, but I also have at least 30 other gribblies there too) I don't see the need for OS warriors (when comparing to shrikes). In regards to their saves? Well I'm taking a better cover save than a 4+ regular most of the time anyway.

It's not just the delivery system that's the issue either, it's the mobility they have AFTER killing their primary target. I don't know about you guys, but most games I assign "missions" for each of my units, and sometimes they don't do as expected. Sometimes that Flyrant whiffs his rolls and is stuck in combat, then hit by a tarpit. Well, my Shrikes just murdered that pack of Nobs that was their primary mission, and are not freed up as auxillary forces. I have a pretty reliable 21" charge from where ever that unit is standing at the beginning of my turn, which makes up 65% of the board (assuming you're not within 21" of a board edge, playing on a 6x4 board). Add 12" to that and you have an idea of how good it's at plugging synapse as well. Warriors just don't have that sort of mobility, and a pod only (sort of) helps the delivery.

Edit; I would like to add that, just like my jetbikes, I almost always take at least 1 wound from dangerous terrain one these guys before they see combat. Make sure to shuffle it to the non-closest model on your next move / run phase if you're not assaulting that turn.

^this, all of it.

[creatureboi]

Slightly off-topic question but I've been wanting to run shrikes for ages and FW has been out of stock on the conversion kit since forever. What do you guys do to model your shrikes? Gargoyle wings are too small so what else is out there that I can kit bash?

[Jabberwocky]

Dark Pegasus wings, vargheist wings, dark Eldar scourge wings or all options.

Personally I'm fine with gargoyle wings.

[N.I.B.]

Nov 19, 2014 8:10:16 GMT creatureboi said:

Slightly off-topic question but I've been wanting to run shrikes for ages and FW has been out of stock on the conversion kit since forever. What do you guys do to model your shrikes?

There's no requirement for Shrikes to have wings. I just use Warrior models and inform my opponent that they are Shrikes.