Post by mattblowers on Sept 17, 2014 21:37:40 GMT
I was going to put my report on my genestealer spam list in the genestealer tactica thread, but it went so badly off track I wanted to get away from that.
So last night I ran a genestealer spam list to see what happened. I was actually pleasantly suprised. My opponent knew that I was running 'stealer heavy but didn't know about the rest of my list. We played at 2,000 points.
I ran:
- The two genestealer formations.
- 4 more genestealer broods in CAD.
- 2 deep strike ripper swarms with TS
- 2 dakka flyrants with egrubs
- 1 crone
- 3 biovores
- venomhrope
- malanthrope
That was 65 genestealers in all and a broodlord (his unit had 10) for 12 min broods no upgrades.
He ran: Eldar (of course he did)
- Dire Avengers in serpent spam
- 2 Wraithknights with SL and suncannon
- 1 Vauls battery gun
- Crimson Hunter
- Jacked-up Spirit seer on jetbike
- 6 man unit of Wraithguard with template weapon
We had someone else set up the terrain. There was decent amount of ruins. 1 terrain blocking item on each extreme flank (but the right side was a wall running between us (perpendicular not parralel and it did nothing).
He went first and got the night fighting for me, ignore it for him WL trate. I got stealth in ruins and MVC with army (pretty good actually).
He was afraid of Malestrom with me so we went with Eternal War and he rolled The Scouring. My psychic powers wound up being worthless except paroxyism which I failed to get 3x, perilled once, and he denied 2x. I would cast Dominion by default.
I won with a Score of 9-3, though this would have swung dramatically had it gone to turn 7.
My strategy was to run min units infiltrating 6 units in the beginning and then outflanking the other 6 and DS the 2 ripper swarms. My flyrants and Crone went to work early and the biovores poured down death once I started opening the cans.
It was, without a doubt, the hardest game I have played in quite some time. It took every bit of effort on my part to pull it off. Your tactics have to spot on, as every mistake will cost you a unit. I rolled dismally for most of the game (ie with a 2+ cover save on turn 1 I rolled 4/6 ones on the Crones first turn getting light up by a Wraithknight, and the 10 stealer brood with brood lord failing by only getting one glance on the charge on a Wave Serpent.)
A couple of take aways:
- Despite all the advice to the contrary, I ran minimum units and they did great. In cover they are pretty resilient, in the open 10 die almost as easily as 5. He was constantly frustrated by overkill. Units in cover with a venomthrope or malanthrope nearby take too much firepower to kill off, he had to drop his shields to get the ignores cover shot a lot.
- "Quantity has a quality all of it's own" (Someone Famous).
- I couldn't deal with Wraithknights (horrible rolls). I didn't kill one. BUT I controlled them with multi-unit charges and multiple threats.
- Had it been Malestrom, it wouldn't have been close as all my units that just died would have scored before going extinct.
- Stealers are only marginally better than other choices we have in combat in most circumstances. Their high price tag negates the benefits of rending.
- That many genestealer units has a psychological effect on your opponent.
- You have to be SUPER aggressive. Even more so than usual. More will die being out of combat than in it. This is where tactics gets so tense. Use shot up units to charge first to eat overwatch. Skirt close to the edge of cover so you can move out of it and then charge. Get on those objectives early so the last sentence works. I know people say not to infiltrate, but by grabbing the objectives you are forcing them out of cover to come get them and that is where the genestealers high initiative can really work.
- Flyrants are super important in this list. You have to be thinking about your next move on this move. Their synapse is crucial to manipulate the GtG/Stand up shennanigans.
- It's a funny thing, you can't bum rush, but neither can you passively wait your turn. It's more jui-jitsu: you have to wait for your opponent to make a move and then use that to your own advantage.
Anyway, my plan worked. I thought that swamping the table with small units could work, and it did. I used what many consider the worst choice in our codex and did well against what many consider a top list in the game. I'm not sure I'd win if we played again, but this time it worked. He's used to Tyranids and did pretty well, but my list really negated the high strength and low AP weapons he typically uses. For now, this moved beyond math hammer and theory of what might happen and I gained some actual experience with the unloved 'stealers.
One word of caution: I wouldn't reccomend reading this and thinking "genestealers are pretty good!" and throwing a couple units in your list; you'll be really disappointed with the result. If you are going to use genestealers you HAVE to build your list around them, but, really, isn't that proving to be the case with our codex?
So last night I ran a genestealer spam list to see what happened. I was actually pleasantly suprised. My opponent knew that I was running 'stealer heavy but didn't know about the rest of my list. We played at 2,000 points.
I ran:
- The two genestealer formations.
- 4 more genestealer broods in CAD.
- 2 deep strike ripper swarms with TS
- 2 dakka flyrants with egrubs
- 1 crone
- 3 biovores
- venomhrope
- malanthrope
That was 65 genestealers in all and a broodlord (his unit had 10) for 12 min broods no upgrades.
He ran: Eldar (of course he did)
- Dire Avengers in serpent spam
- 2 Wraithknights with SL and suncannon
- 1 Vauls battery gun
- Crimson Hunter
- Jacked-up Spirit seer on jetbike
- 6 man unit of Wraithguard with template weapon
We had someone else set up the terrain. There was decent amount of ruins. 1 terrain blocking item on each extreme flank (but the right side was a wall running between us (perpendicular not parralel and it did nothing).
He went first and got the night fighting for me, ignore it for him WL trate. I got stealth in ruins and MVC with army (pretty good actually).
He was afraid of Malestrom with me so we went with Eternal War and he rolled The Scouring. My psychic powers wound up being worthless except paroxyism which I failed to get 3x, perilled once, and he denied 2x. I would cast Dominion by default.
I won with a Score of 9-3, though this would have swung dramatically had it gone to turn 7.
My strategy was to run min units infiltrating 6 units in the beginning and then outflanking the other 6 and DS the 2 ripper swarms. My flyrants and Crone went to work early and the biovores poured down death once I started opening the cans.
It was, without a doubt, the hardest game I have played in quite some time. It took every bit of effort on my part to pull it off. Your tactics have to spot on, as every mistake will cost you a unit. I rolled dismally for most of the game (ie with a 2+ cover save on turn 1 I rolled 4/6 ones on the Crones first turn getting light up by a Wraithknight, and the 10 stealer brood with brood lord failing by only getting one glance on the charge on a Wave Serpent.)
A couple of take aways:
- Despite all the advice to the contrary, I ran minimum units and they did great. In cover they are pretty resilient, in the open 10 die almost as easily as 5. He was constantly frustrated by overkill. Units in cover with a venomthrope or malanthrope nearby take too much firepower to kill off, he had to drop his shields to get the ignores cover shot a lot.
- "Quantity has a quality all of it's own" (Someone Famous).
- I couldn't deal with Wraithknights (horrible rolls). I didn't kill one. BUT I controlled them with multi-unit charges and multiple threats.
- Had it been Malestrom, it wouldn't have been close as all my units that just died would have scored before going extinct.
- Stealers are only marginally better than other choices we have in combat in most circumstances. Their high price tag negates the benefits of rending.
- That many genestealer units has a psychological effect on your opponent.
- You have to be SUPER aggressive. Even more so than usual. More will die being out of combat than in it. This is where tactics gets so tense. Use shot up units to charge first to eat overwatch. Skirt close to the edge of cover so you can move out of it and then charge. Get on those objectives early so the last sentence works. I know people say not to infiltrate, but by grabbing the objectives you are forcing them out of cover to come get them and that is where the genestealers high initiative can really work.
- Flyrants are super important in this list. You have to be thinking about your next move on this move. Their synapse is crucial to manipulate the GtG/Stand up shennanigans.
- It's a funny thing, you can't bum rush, but neither can you passively wait your turn. It's more jui-jitsu: you have to wait for your opponent to make a move and then use that to your own advantage.
Anyway, my plan worked. I thought that swamping the table with small units could work, and it did. I used what many consider the worst choice in our codex and did well against what many consider a top list in the game. I'm not sure I'd win if we played again, but this time it worked. He's used to Tyranids and did pretty well, but my list really negated the high strength and low AP weapons he typically uses. For now, this moved beyond math hammer and theory of what might happen and I gained some actual experience with the unloved 'stealers.
One word of caution: I wouldn't reccomend reading this and thinking "genestealers are pretty good!" and throwing a couple units in your list; you'll be really disappointed with the result. If you are going to use genestealers you HAVE to build your list around them, but, really, isn't that proving to be the case with our codex?