[1850] Need advice: Hive Crone or not?

[cluttereater]

So I'm preparing for a small tournament at my FLGS this weekend, and I'm debating between two 1850 lists:

BOTH lists have:
2 Dakka, ESG Flyrants
1 Malanthrope
1 Venomthrope
1 Zoanthrope
1 Hormagaunt squad (10)
1 Termagant squad (10)
3 Dakkafexes (currently in separate broods)
1 Living Artillery Formation

Now on the one hand, I could add more troops and support units:
+1 Zoanthrope to the existing brood (makes 2)
+5 Hormagaunts to the existing brood (makes 15)
+1 Brood of 15 Hormagaunts
+8 Termagants to the existing brood (makes 18)
+3 Deep Striking Rippers
+Regeneration on the Warlord Tyrant

OR, I could add a Hive crone and fewer gaunts/extras than above:
+1 Hive Crone
+5 Hormagaunts to the existing brood (makes 15)
+5 Termagants to the existing brood (makes 15)
+1 Brood of 15 Termagants

I'm losing out on a second Zoanthrope, regeneration, having more gaunts, and deep striking rippers. But I'm gaining another FMC. The lists that I know I'll be facing for sure include things like: Necron chariots + flyers, drop pod space wolves (with a fire raptor), ravenwing, 2 mechanized guard, hordes of ork boys, marines with Stormravens/talons, and another Tyranid player who runs a very very similar list.

My general strategy is to hide away Living Artillery + a Venomthrope in a ruin, and then to move the Zoey + Malanthrope + Fexes + Gaunts up the field in a big ball while the Flyrants go full on offense. This has worked very well in our league, but as people start breaking out more Flyers for the tournament I'm expecting that I'm going to start losing Flyrants more quickly (especially against the Fire Raptor). Given that they give my list a lot of its punch I think the Crone could work well to either take some heat off them / remove troublesome enemy flyers.

So how good is the Hive Crone at its job? I'd basically be taking it to deal with Stormravens/Fire Raptors/Scythes. Do you think it's worth losing out on the stuff listed above?

Thanks!

[FTGTEvan]

I'm still pretty big on the Crones, but think you probably need two. I'm not sure one on his own will be able to do enough, even with dakkaflyrant support. That said, his flamer is also pretty good at thinning out Necrons and Orks on the ground. I would lean toward the second list just a bit.

[cluttereater]

Sadly I only have one Crone, and can't afford a second (at least not before the tournament). I don't know what I would give up for a second crone either. Fexes? gaunts? I need the gaunts to hold objectives, tarpit, and bubblewrap against the space wolf drop pod list. The fexes are a lot of my shooting power.

[FTGTEvan]

Yeah, for now I think the single crone could work. Were you to get a second, I might consider breaking up the living artillery node for it and dropping the single Exo. Just a thought.

[coredump]

Heh, and now for something completely different...

I think 1 crone is great, but rarely think 2 is worth it. They are really good against air, and good against Xenos infantry in cover; and only meh against everything else. I think there will be too many games without enough reallygood/good targets for two crones.

OTOH, I think Living Artillery is really good. Getting to reroll biovore and Exo blasts is really powerful.

I would definitely prefer the second list. Not sure about the added brood of gaunts... do you have any gargs?

[nameless]

Yeah, I'd go Crone, but I wouldn't add in those 130 extra points of troops.

Given your use of the Venomthrope, I'd consider dropping the Zoan. That would give you an extra 180 points which opens up a lot of other hard hitters.

Dakkafex #2
Tyrannofex
Exocrine #2
Mawloc
Crone #2

I'd personally add in a Tyrannofex. Or you can cut both ESG from the tyrants and add in a Dima.

[nameless]

Sept 3, 2014 17:06:25 GMT coredump said:

Heh, and now for something completely different...

I think 1 crone is great, but rarely think 2 is worth it. They are really good against air, and good against Xenos infantry in cover; and only meh against everything else. I think there will be too many games without enough reallygood/good targets for two crones.

OTOH, I think Living Artillery is really good. Getting to reroll biovore and Exo blasts is really powerful.

I would definitely prefer the second list. Not sure about the added brood of gaunts... do you have any gargs?

Don't forget pinning, even on the 6 shot exo gun!

If you go with gargs, I'd switch to DS rippers as Gargs will act as a better screen.

[wikkedtiki]

The assault 6 exo gin does not get pining. Only the blast templates do in the formation. Otherwise the Warriors deniers would pin.

[nameless]

Yes, the warriors get pinning as well.

[wikkedtiki]

I just double-checked, you are correct.... that is silly....

[cluttereater]

Coredump: I do have Gargs, but only 10 of them. I'd still have to fill some of those points with Gaunts or DS rippers. Why do you prefer Gargs over normal Gaunts? Just the speed?

Nameless: I have a Mawloc, so I could add that in, but I've found that some big Gaunt broods can be very useful for bubblewrapping units against the more aggressive armies in my local meta (drop pods, ravenwing). I sure wish I had more big beasties though!

[nameless]

Usually gargoyles act as a front line infront of the heavy hitters. Anything on the ground can be effected by difficult terrain and cause the back lines to not get their full 6" movement. Hence, why gargoyles act well in this situation.

Gaunts come in second (although more expensive than gants) as they have the additional 3" on the run but can still get caught up on that first turn move through cover roll.

Gargoyles are also taller and less likely to cause arguments when claiming something gets a cover save behind them.


A Mawloc could work by starting on the board and tunneling on T2 (if there is nothing in your deployment zone) and automatically come back on T3. I really don't care for Mawlocs, but there is a bit of a use for them with FMC in the air.

If you're worried about DS melta/plasma, you're probably better off with a toe in ruins near a venomthrope/malanthrope for that 2+ cover save.

[cluttereater]

Ah, that makes sense. They're taller than normal gaunts so they confer easy 5+ obscured saves to the big guys behind them. Can't believe I didn't think of that. I'll definitely put them in then.

And the danger from deep striking is that the space wolf player has a deathstorm, and a habit of spamming rune priests to roll on sanctic for cleansing flame. My venomthropes rarely survive.

[Yautja]

2 Flyrants and a Crone should be fine for aerial domination.

[cluttereater]

Sept 10, 2014 15:40:08 GMT Yautja said:

2 Flyrants and a Crone should be fine for aerial domination.

I ended up winning, but never got to use my Crone against any flyers. My games were against Eldar, Orks, and then Guard. The poor thing got grounded by Traktor Kannons against Orks and assaulted to death.

I played a game yesterday though and he wiped two Stormtalons off the board in two turns, so that was cool.